Really really basic stuff

So is that the case that there wouldn’t be any duplicates on the network? (ignoring whether or not you’re charged to store it) that’s incredibly efficient.

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This comes up every so often.

  • you “PUT” a chunk
  • The network uses the hash etc to determine the address to store it
  • sends it to the group in charge of that address
  • OH it exists, nothing more to do.
  • You had already paid the “PUT” charge

The reasons for charging even though it exists is for improved anonymity and security. Plus its of great benefit to SAFE economy to have income for those very popular cat videos. The more dedup happens the more likely the network is retrieving the chinks more often.

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HA HA HA HA HA :rofl:

I wouldn’t begrudge the fee, just impressed with how it works! It’s as if they’ve been working on it for years… :smiley:

This would actually be good for the application i mentioned on another thread wrt LCM software, a lot of the file storage is duplication and this would eliminate that.

I think I need to put my Ripple earnings in to MAID :wink:


Would you mind please clarifying your question? I’m not sure what you are asking here and so am not sure how to answer you.

But doesn’t deduplification come into play here? If user 1 uploads awesomepic.jpg and then user 2 then attempts to store awesomepic.jpg as well wouldn’t the network simply reference awesomepic.jpg once and not charge user 2?

So you’re paying to either upload or to prove a file is popular?

That is what I am talking about. See the process I mentioned in reply to another person. You pay if its new or being dedup

This doesn’t make sense to me.

Anyhow you pay to upload, even if the chunk exists. Just if it exists then nothing is stored, but the network did work for you. You also get your datamap from the upload.

The bit about popular is that a popular file is more likely to be uploaded multiple times. Only one copy is stored, but each copy uploaded is charged for.

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hi Neo,
so if I use maidsafe mail and send mail to non users, i gather i pay but how does them replying to me go?
do I pay for receiving their return mails as well?
i still havent worked out the cost of the maidsafe coins either as a non contributor for storage i would have to buy them …and as i mentioned in my very first ? to all
some of us just cant work out how all this fiddly nonreal money coin stuff works or how to do it.
ive been very leery of it as its so ephemeral
power goes out phone and wifi goes and we’re all pphht
we had a perfect example of that when an exchange in Vic burned down a few yrs ago
for 2 weeks we had no phones net ATM and patchy mobile service
we couldnt buy fuel to leave town to shop, or shop here pay bills etc
i see that the global spread of this system may be able to at least save data for later,
but I will happily call myself luddite for preferring real cash:slight_smile:
I WILL go read the coin pages and try once again to wrap my brain round it.
might be an age thing? lol i didnt grow up using pcs

and that alone is pure gold:slight_smile:cant remember how many sites i stuffed up passwords etc on

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i see your point re early dissemination
whatever it is however does have to be seen and read etc to then be able to BE either proven or disproven

how many reports do we get msmwise that start with one series of “facts” by the ptb and within hours or a day or so end up being hugely different?
so I dont see how the Safe area is going to be that different inh that respect
false or malicious may get airtime, they’ll also cop flack and corrections
lets face it our respective govts globally as well as msm and presstitutes practice intentional psyops on us daily already.

This site shows the prices of all of the different coins and which exchanges have the most volume (liquidity) for each coin as well. MAID is traded vs BTC, so step 1 is get some BTC.
For email, you can’t send to ‘regular’ email users. SAFE is a self contained system. It is possible bridges will built to jump outside of SAFE to the clearnet, but in using those you’d lose the security benefits of using SAFE.
To figure out who pays for what on SAFE, remember that all data has an owner. Generally if you are creating the data, you will be the owner and will pay to put the data onto the network.

They will have to be users to get mail. Just like GMAIL where you have to have an email account to get email, SAFE would also require the user to have a SAFE account to get mail. Otherwise where would you send the mail?

There has been some discussions on how this might be possible. One is for a friend to gift you a coin, another is to run a vault for a short while to get a coin. As we get closer to release and testsafecoin the specifics of the chicken-n-egg problem for getting a coin to open an account and start things off.

Yea, I remember that, it was bad and telstra dragged their feet fixing it too. Having been an engineer in Testra back in the 80’s I know they have (or used to) emergency portable exchanges to give minimal phone service to a dead exchange.

In any case there is nothing we can do in that case and just have to wait till things get fixed. Running vaults in areas of unstable internet or limited GB allocation will be difficult at best and likely impossible. Over time though things should (eventually) improve and basically the whole world will have the ability to run vaults. The NBN in Australia should have been able to provide this ability.

Once you have coin then using it on the SAFE network will be as easy or easier than internet banking or using a credit card on a site.

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i dont have to have a gmail acct to send mail to someone who uses that company
i gather safemail is like using my present company where i get a name and account…and then just do mails to friends
so why would they need to also be in safemail?
is it because its encrypted?

so youre an Aussie;-) nice to know someone else remembers the great fallover event still not just me n the locals;-) telstra took over a week to even turn up to the town and then did sweet fa to assist
optus came in after i called them,and handed out free wifi dongles to help businesses get some web and function back.

Id love to get friends to join in and i know I am coming across as a ditz, but i am probably the most savvy of all my mates(scary isnt it?) re pcs use n fixing and how web works(just enough to stay online anyway) if I cant understand it, then none of them have a chance in hell.
when i mention im going to swap to Linux , and they could too, they think i mean Linus as in cartoon.

Because the SAFE network is essentially an entirely new INTERNET. It is an entirely separate and new network to that of the clear net internet and uses it’s own new protocols. For example there are no servers on the SAFE network. Therefore server side languages like PHP or CGI just do not work on the SAFE network. Therefore Google could not simply port Gmail and its other software over to SAFE because the software would be incompatible. Brand new websites and web apps will be need to be developed from scratch.

But yes you are correct the fact it is encrypted would also be a reason your friends would need to get their own accounts as well. Think of TOR and that dark net. You need to view .onion sites via the Tor browser and they are not visible via a regular web browser.

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Re the coin thing. If you value safety and security, you will use SAFE. Remember it costs you to use SAFE but you also get paid to allow your hard drive to be used by SAFE, if it meets the basic criteria. The value of the coin today is about 70 cents AUD. Depending on how many you buy today, once the system launches and gets mass adoption, what will one coin be worth to those who value safety and security. The answer to that question is where the gold is. Refer to the Safecoin Price and Trading topic. Some say US $10 on launch, others see a price way in excess of that after a few years of trading… From what I understand, there will also be the option of toggling between SAFE and the current internet, so you could use your current accounts, but without safety.

No but they have to have a internet email account with some provider.

Since SAFE is the new internet then that person needs to be on SAFE and have a “mail provider” (APP) on SAFE. Internet requires you to use a email provider and some read your emails (gmail yahoo etc). Mail is the protocol just like email is a protocol (SMTP) on the internet. The beauty of SAFE is the mail “provider” is simply an APP that processes the mail protocol that is used by this new internet (SAFE)

Because its a new protocol and everyone is their own mailbox rather than having a company with a server holding the email (and reading it) for you. And its always encrypted till the mail APP on your PC decodes it for you.

Yep and it was nationwide news even reaching good old QLD.

No worries there will be no need to understand it and anything they need to learn will be like learning how to use facebook or gmail.

Oh and remember one thing – On the current internet you are paying to use it now. Paying with your personal data which is then sold off to the highest bidder, often advertisers. BUT on SAFE your personal data is yours and never needs to be given to anyone and only if you decide to give it to another will it be. That shifts the payment from your personal data to a small amount of coin. Larger if you store a ton of files on SAFE.

I think this will be a big stumbling block for a lot of people, “Pay? to do things i’ve never had to pay for?! but the google lets me do it for free…”

Can the team clarify in say dollar terms, if I wanted to save 1gb of data on the network, what would I be expected to pay?

This is asked a lot. The network decides, but you have to see how it decides on this. It basically pays safecoin to farmers at a rate. The rate is adjusted up or down depending on resources available. So imagine it like this.

Network has too many resources → Reduces payments and is happy enough if folk do not farm.
Network has too few resources → increases payments to encourage more farmers.

So the price will be, the lowest cost the network can pay to provide the resources you wish. In other words, a perfect commodities market.

It’s better than that though, because normal farmers (home users) are giving up what they do not use, assuming their computer is on.

So the price is, the least amount it will cost to store data, based on how much people are prepared to accept for something they did not use.

tl;dr It should be very very cheap.


We cant make exact comment regarding the dollar amount till the network is live but we can make an educated guess. Taking example of Sia which is best in Decentralized storage right now, per TB costs around $0.16 per month (checked long ago, expected to be lower now). Now even if we overestimate a TB would be at most $1 per month. That is really cheap and affordable to most of the users. Mailing and basic web services needs very small data (unless video) and I don’t think the cost would be more than $1 per month. Well I am from India and it seems cheaper in my country standards.

To answer your question, I am expecting $0.10 at most to store 1 GB data per month. Its excessively overestimated.

PS: Totally my speculation. Appreciate any feedback.


Thanks David, but this is what I’m trying to get away from, for a general member of the public, what you’ve just written doesn’t help at all.

If you were to say saving 1gb of data would probably cost between $0.002-$0.005 then it would break down the barrier of concern that using the Safe network would be prohibitively expensive for a normal user. If we’re talking fractions of a dollar/gbp/euro then people can relate, but the ‘network decides’ just causes anxiety…

SAFE has a once only charge

SIA price is set by the people storing from memory so the price is more greedy than SAFE ever will be.

Since price of hard drives (per TB) is always dropping there should be no longer term problems with the once only charge. Before we start a discussion on that there is already a couple of topics.

As David says it will depend on the current resources. If there is plenty of spare resources it could cost as low as 1^10-12 (0.000000000001) SAFEcoin per GB

Well the problem is we simply do NOT KNOW. Its a network thing, it decides how much SAFEcoin. The cost of a SAFEcoin is not controlled by the network.

We can say that it will be the price of a harddrive or lower. It could be as low as 1000TB per dollar or as high as approximately the price of buying the harddrive yourself. And if spare resources at a particular time is very low then 1GB per dollar or worse.

The range is too high to be able to give a ballpark figure of the price. As David says the people by their participation will decide.