Thank you for the acknowledgement @happybeing. Yes I have thought about it, as have other individuals like Aaron Swartz. There are whole videos on the topoic. But here are my thoughts.
We cannot address the issue of practical solutions until we admit copyright does not work in the digital age. Not should not work, not is immoral, CAN NOT work. Is impractical and infeasible to the point of non functioning. CAN NOT. Cannot the same way you cannot waterskii while wearing a suit of plate mail armor.
Given that art itself can be so easily pirated once uploaded to a digital medium it does not make sense to attempt to sell the art itself online. Or consider any art uploaded to have a rapidly depreciating value which will eventually reach 0. What one CAN capitalize on however is as follows:
The artistâs time as a service. Ex. Performing live at a venue, commissions, customizations, performing a role, etc etc.
The artistâs following may be harnessed as for advertising revenue generation. The art might be free and tons of people come for it but are exposed to advertising of one form or another. Not all ads have to be boring, in fact Iâve seen some in my life which are down right entertaining and creative. Or you can have the subtle kind included in the artwork itself like having a character drink from a brand name of pop or mention a name of a company name mentioned metaphorically in the lyrics of a song. In fact there was a whole podcast on this on Under the Influence on the CBC. We make references and referrals to things EVERY DAY so why is it so difficult to think you could get paid to do it without having it be all up in your face?
Physical merchandise of their art. Take the anime RWBY for example. The anime itself is more or less free to watch. But Roosterteeth sells physical merchandise based on the series: DVDs, plushies, t-shirts, nick knacks, whatever, that fans can then buy. While DIGITAL art is infinite PHYSICAL art still takes resources and cubic and therefore still conforms to traditional laws of supply and demand.
Use art to gain an audience in order to sell a completely different product or service. So you canât sell the art itself. But people like art. That means you can easily gain a following. That doesnât mean you canât use your art to sell something ELSE like video games, clothes, sports equipment, or persuade people of a political or activist position, or whatever else. Or you could partner with someone else who is trying to sell something and commission off a portion of your time or your audienceâs attention to gain profit. Or you might create art directly about the product youâre trying to sell. If youâre trying to sell fishiong gear you might have a little comic about a guy who goes fishing every weekend and have him using whatever is on sale in his adventures.
Take full advantage of the rapid spread of your art online and encourage people to buy the hardcopy book or assorted merchandise. Offer to send them a signed copy of your physical art or assemble a care package of some kind.
Create a cryptocurrency or MD based crypto for the artist so people could invest directly in the artist by buying their coin. Also if you think an artist would increase in worth you could buy more of their coin and essentially invest in them while riding their wealth so to speak. Imagine if you could buy stock in celebrities when they were just amateur starlets?
These are just a few ideas. Iâm sure Iâll come up with more but the key idea is copyright does not work. Itâs stupid to try and âenforceâ copyright as itâs an ancient 18th, if not 14th century concept hanging on into the 21st century. The concept of âcopyrightâ and information gate keeping has been hanging on as long as literacy itself, definitely since the advent of the printing press. It needs to die.
Iâd recommend you give this a watch.
The thing is a lot of the technical problems Aaron is talking about here are being solved by Maidsafe. Now it WILL be technically possible to host a youtube video or a website on your laptop at home because you can just use the SAFE network to do it.
I agree thereâs a case (which I tend to agree with) that copyright is broken, not just because of the digital age, but that certainly highlights and exaggerates its problems. That is a mixture of a cultural, a political and a business problem, with the latter being the keystone I think.
Solve the business problem and maybe you can tackle the others, but without a viable way for creatives to make money outside of copyright, it is pretty much a non starter, or at most far more difficult.
I like your ideas, definitely creative, but if creating art wasnât already hard enough, doing all that on top is making it difficult in the extreme (and I wonât comment on the problems I have with advertising - Iâm sure youâve read my polemics on that here ).
So I agree in principle, but Iâm not seeing how this can be a practical, let alone attractive alternative at this point, or how systems could be built in to make it so. I certainly hope we can though, but I now understand what you want and why, and your comments about n99 much better. Thanks very much for explaining so clearly. I appreciate that.
PtP is of course a candidate for your list too . It surprises me how contentious these issues are, important certainly, but it often seems more than Iâd expect. But hopefully that means extra energy for creating better ways for artists to make their living!
EDIT: Great video too, thanks. Nice to hear Aaron lay it all out so clearly, and yes, SAFEnetwork can deliver - I wonder what Aaron would be building on SAFE right now. I hope thereâs somebody like him building SAFE apps - they will blow our minds!
I didnât say I LIKED the idea of advertising in oneâs art. I didnât even say I liked the idea of needing to create art for profit. But if one is going to use oneâs creativity for profit advertising is one way to do it. Your polemics are irrelevant. Yes making art is difficult as it is however as I said before making art to SELL is an entirely different prospect than making art for simple self expression. So if one is making art to sell or for oneâs business one has to take oneâs business model and oneâs perspective market audience into the equation when creating it. Itâs not at all impractical, itâs part of the job of being an artist.
If you donât have the creative flexibility to create for a wide variety of business situations then Iâd suggest improving oneâs skills as an artist. If you donât see the practical business oppurtunities Iâd suggest comparing the drawbacks of sticking with the old model and possibly be losing profit. At some point it will cost more to stick with the old system than it will to risk adapting and trying someone new. You are quite right PtP should also be on the list and is quite important. Though I donât know why you are surprised by the contentiousness of these issues as weâve been fighting over them for centuries.
They say that lifeâs a carousel
Spinning fast, youâve got to ride it well
The world is full of Kings and Queens
Who blind your eyes and steal your dreams
Itâs Heaven and Hell, oh well
And theyâll tell you black is really white
The moon is just the sun at night
And when you walk in golden halls
You get to keep the gold that falls
Yeah but what Mr. Hicks forgot to mention is every artist needs to market their art or they donât sell anything regardless of what they create or do. And marketing means advertising of some form or other. What do you think YOU have been doing throughout this entire post? Updates! Marketing your product. Advertising! Granted itâs preaching to the choir but itâs still marketing.
Marketing and advertising are related, but not the same thing. However, the problem with advertising in particular is that it centralises power at scale. Anything that does that inevitably creates problems.
Every action is in essence a form of advertising - self promotion is the path of the creative - in essence an artist has a decision to create and self collect their art or create art to be appreciated //seen // heard by people - know many artists who are the former have rooms full of unseen paintings etc self promotion does not come easy to many creative people [ which can become a self fore filling prophesy [ the tortured genius neme has lead to many creative people to early graves] in this space the middlemen roam â one issue has always been as Mr William Melvin Hicks alluded to when the artist//musician etc has to become the voice piece for a product that may in essence be contrary to the artists vision - the option to advertise etc should be the option of the creative. Let alone the minefield that is advertising vs free speech [the current You Tube purge is perfect example]
Raising awareness of ideas // music// art // film // written word etc is one of the many drives behind n99 // LIFE IS PEOPLE esp when due to current ad based paradigm many of these creative projects //concepts etc are largely under the radar and anything that raises awareness is only ever a good thing in the market place of ideas.
As creative people we have to continually be jumping off cliffs and developing our wings on the way down porque #weareallgoingtodie
âCreativity takes courage. â
â Henri Matisse
For me it comes down to integrity. If youâre promoting something you believe in thatâs one thing. When youâre just advertising something because youâre paid to do it itâs empty. I think Mr. Hicks real objection was to this second form. When you simply craft something to spec for the client regardless of whether you believe in it or not then itâs no longer a form of speech or expressing because what you FEEL runs totally contrary to what you are creating. Itâs like Einsteinâs genius being used to create the atomic bomb. He could do it yes but it ran completely contrary to his nature. Yes I agree the creator should take priority over the advertiser. The problem is thatâs not how a business is run and Youtube and Google are businesses. In business profit takes priority and advertisers provide profit not the creators. Therefore when there are creators that threaten profits they are filtered out. Youtube really isnât a platform for creativity or free speech. Itâs an advertising platform which caters to creators, but ONLY insomuch as they promote advertising for the corporation. Google isnât actually a search engine. It offers search results ONLY so far as those search results donât threaten advertisers from withdrawing due to political correctness issues. This is why we need decentralized internet and competition with Google et all.
So Maybe I can clarify a few things.
*What N99 Is and is not:
N99 is not a policing service; except to say that it wonât host copyrighted media files. Any content will have to be from original artist or royalty free with the encouragement to credit the original author. Files that get through safeguards may be deleted without notice.
N99 is not a for profit organization; it is an owner operated organization, meaning all seed holders are owners; shareholders=users.
N99 is not a closed system; all functions are up for vote, and consensus will rule.
the network token Seed is not required for use of website, but is required for ownership and incentives that are there for its optional use. this wonât be a pay to play unless the content owner chooses that on their own channel. settings will be in the hands of the author.
n99 isnât just another Download artist showcase site, It is a complete social network with user connectivity. all the permission settings are in the user profile settings so users have control over who sees them. plus an open forum and channels and chat features are there for maximum connectivity. abilities to utilize e-commerce are there at every turn, including micro-payment, tips inside main chat and personal messaging, downloads, streams, channels, etc.
there is a marketplace for all things physical and non physical, community classifieds, Geo location connectivity is available. the marketplace will be able to utilize any currency fiat or crypto. but incentives as @we_advance discussed will be in place or very similar to them for use of the network token.
*(apologies if there is any confusion about the inconsistencies from the previous discussion to what I am stating here)
If how much power you have to persuade people that your product is best/needed etc and to exclude others, which may well be better etc, comes down to money. Thatâs the problem with advertising.
At the other extreme we have word of mouth - even if you ignore the value of individual relationships - one person can only tell so many people face to face about a product, so their âpowerâ is limited.
Advertising is an industry built on giving most power to those with most to spend, and will go to any lengths it can to make that work, which is why so much advertising is not just telling us about a product but trying to persuade and manipulate us, to the exclusion of more useful information and ultimately our own wellbeing.
But donât get me started Hope that clarifies what I meant.
Greetings! I am new to the safenetwork forum, however am a longtime follower of MaidSAFE projects and development. I am currently working with the N99 project team, collaborating on platform features and configuration. Thank you @we_advance, for having the vision to make this project a reality. P.S. - I am the girl that @Lee_Travis and @we_advance never talk about
I think when the power of the word of mouth if married to an entire network things can go viral. and if the network is in the hands of the users then they are in control of their success.
Thank you @happybeing , you have been a very positive contributer here and I appreciate that.
Yes but isnât this where social networking and the internet comes in? One can create a much more extensive digital following than they can physically. And if one combines that with both a physical network and their extended network this becomes quite a large number of people.
Pay to play is an issue in politics, education, everywhere. So why not create an app to solve this? There are people that ENJOY making promotional materials. There are people that ENJOY making and doing most anything. Why not make a ludic app? One based on doing things one enjoys and promoting things one believes in and enjoys as opposed to doing things for work. Play to play is based on the assumption that one needs to be compensated for doing something they donât want to be doing. But if you do want to be doing something youâre less likely to require compensation. Same idea as safecoin: If youâre doing something anyway why not tap that as a resource? So if you like reading why not offer to review books? Or if you like movies then review movies. If you like cooking create recipies or cook for someone (health issues aside). Get the point?
How will you tell if an artist is original or not? What safeguards? This methodology hasnât really worked for Youtube and such like. How can you verify if the content is by the original author or not? The art my be original but the artist may not.
And how does one make a new proposal? Also how do we keep N99 from âbeing evilâ in the Google sense of âdonât be evilâ. Obviously Google failed at that ambition and democracy is no protection against snowflakes. Is there an N99 constitution or a way to diverge or fork the community without having to fork the software? In short what happens if you have team Blue wanting to censor team Red for content type A and team Red wanting to censor team Blue for content type B and Team Green wanting no censorship whatsoever. Do we turn into a draconian pissing contest like they have in the states? Look Iâm not a big fan of democracy or government but Iâm even less of a fan of repeating the mistakes of history, especially RECENT history which can actively be observed.
Okay 1. Do we all get our own personalized skins and themes for our profiles like on friendica because that would be cool. 2. What happens when pedophiles and neonazis and jihadist terrorists start posting their art and beliefs on the forum? Because you know they will. Somebody is going to get offended. This is what Iâm saying with the Red vs Blue speech. Or what happens when you get a bunch of Christians bumping elbows with a bunch of Pagans? Just saying youâll need some sort of personal filter and search so people can find who they want while staying away from those they donât want. Otherwise youâre going to turn into the artistic Monarchy of safenet.
If one needs to pay to post content how is that not an incentive to charge for oneâs art? How is it not pay to play if seeds are required for ownership and ownership is required to post artwork? Not to mention you canât like or review content without paying in seeds either.
How do you ensure the userâs anonymity? Do you have a way to ship goods anonymously? A way to arrange private meetings and ensure the safety of those involved? Do we even have a decentralized exchange yet? How can you offer fiat support without one? How do you plan to avoid KYC or taxes for that matter? Oh and how might you deal with international shipping and customs for international orders of physical goods? If I order some pan pipes from across the border how do you help ensure I actually get what I paid for? If I order an actual genuine Scottish broadsword from Scotland is there a hope in hell Iâll actually get to hold it and swing it? Currency aside how do you handle customs and border crossings?
@Blindsite2k I am going to attempt to answer all of your questions, might I ask one small favor from you? please donât ask anymore until I finish up with those Initial questions. because I am only one guy and I definitely donât have all the worlds answers. and any time taken away to answer questions takes away from getting down to business making n99 he he. That said I am happy to explore with you. You have said a lot here so I will start with question one and it may take me a few hours or a day to answer the rest.
So not policing is just that - not policing. I can tell that you are playing the devilâs advocate on this, and I think it is important! However, to be fair to this Idea, I would not limit its forward progress with unknowns. It would be impossible to guarantee an author anything. In fact, the whole idea of guarantee is lost on me, as I have never had anyone come good on any guarantees throughout my whole life. That said, we as a community, and I as a developer, can and in certain cases have inserted appropriations for this, such as community reporting and administrative investigation of meta, we can tell when someone uploads content and by having a cryptologic time stamp on the upload associated to a network token, any new uploads of the same file or similar could be identified as a false positive, and also by comparing all meta data associated to the upload. This would only help users protect their content on our network and also give them evidence to litigate someone else on a different network. But ultimately the user is in danger of losing some content to theft at all times on any network. Much like your video you shared (thank you) about Aaron Swartz. Protecting users isnât the primary goal of n99, but it is important. A lot of that may lead into some of your other questions, but at the moment is digressing me from a deeper point, which is: âWhat is N99, and What is it for?â Well thatâs me asking you. My colleagues and I are building this for you, and anyone else who finds it important to have a say in the network that they use. So what you want is important to me. Keep in mind, all I can do is work with the limitations of the current Internet. And like all human endeavors, innovation is born out of necessity. All I can do at this time is give you all the things you currently love about the Internet, absent of some of the things you donât. Such as more control of your data, and more tools at your fingertips. But like all tools, they are simply that. Human beings will still have to rely on themselves to keep their heads above their competition. Since my coming to n99 and agreeing to work on this project, I have discovered things that were originally conceived of that may be obsolete at the current time. So without having to undo those obsolete concepts please donât confuse what I am saying with past statements made here by others. It might make it easier to understand where I am coming from. It is my goal to understand where you are coming from.
I am not completely satisfied with my previous answer to you but in an effort to make some progress I will move on to your next question.
First, one can create a poll and garner votes in the community. One can also suggest a new proposal through the community questions and answers forum currently on the site.
Secondly, we keep n99 from being evil by not allowing it to become proprietary, as a community owned platform it is really up to the community to keep it from becoming âEEvil Like The DEEvileâ. he he can you tell I am a fan of Mike Myers? (So I Married an Axe Murderer quote.)
There is no constitution. But there will be a terms of service. You can be an owner of a seed and violate the terms of service and be banned from the site still keeping your seed. The terms are only limited to your agreement to not break jurisdictional laws, such as kiddie porn or extreme violence such as someone getting their head cut off. Adhering to terms of service is expected of you once you join the community. It is much like buying a home in a nice subdivision with a homeowners association. Youâll need to agree to the terms before buying the house. These terms for n99 will be finely balanced to give users maximum freedom within the bounds of jurisdictional laws.
As far as censorship, each user/group has the option to set filters such as adult content filters or custom filters on searches. Also they have the ability to block any user or group they like, so each group and user can customize their n99 experience. The nice thing about technology is it has come a long way to creating a better democracy than any political system ever has accomplished. That isnât to say that it is perfect but I am optimistic that things will get better and better.
).
2. What happens when pedophiles and neonazis and jihadist terrorists start posting their art and beliefs on the forum? Because you know they will. Somebody is going to get offended. This is what Iâm saying with the Red vs Blue speech. Or what happens when you get a bunch of Christians bumping elbows with a bunch of Pagans? Just saying youâll need some sort of personal filter and search so people can find who they want while staying away from those they donât want. Otherwise youâre going to turn into the artistic Monarchy of safenet.