I think I ran across something that teaches how to script that, could defiantly be a possibility.
I don’t know when N99 will be on the SAFE Network, but maybe we could run some tests together, preferably with other SAFE Network projects as well. Our wallet can now create new wallets, assets and mint coins, it just needs the transfer function.
To get back to this a little, I think SAFEcoin is the most valuable asset on the SAFE Network, because its controlled by the SAFE Network (Jippy! finally something out of the control of these control freaking humans ) and it can be used to buy resources. Through SAFEcoin powered crowdsales or SAFE tokens we can determine the value of a project. If we do a crowdsale and sell 1 million tokens for only 10 SAFEcoins, that means those tokens are worth 10:1000000=0.00001 SAFEcoins (I don’t know if this demonination is even possible @neo help! ). Now if I pay for an N99 service with my tokens that would almost be like a buy order from your app from an exchange perspective, this in itself would make me pay for your service at the price that you ask and push up my coin with a small % in value depending on how much it’s used on services. Buy&sell are one in this liquidity pool and you could even get 1000 different SAFE Network tokens at once, important is that the price that you asked is paid and the tokens spread across the apps on the network. I think this way we completely eliminate exchanges, avoid tokens remaining dead in a wallet and extremely diversify our portfolio. The fun part: the more tokens your project prints the less valuable they might be depending on your crowdsale.
I don’t know how to work this all out, but we can try to free our users from this highly inefficient financial landscape that we’ve recreated in the cryptospace.
This is a worthy goal
Seriously cool idea @19eddyjohn75.
I have been thinking on something similar, (based on bancor protocol ideas - but that is a deeply flawed project and solution, so let’s not mention it again )
I see a token payment app library, which somehow allows you to buy/sell at the same time as a price effect is reciprocated in the network.
(This should maybe be its own topic btw.)
So, you are saying that when item A is for sale on a site for 1 safecoin, any number and types of tokens to the total currently corresponding value of 1 safecoin, would always be accepted?
I am not sure how the price would be affected here.
If we require all apps that implement this token exchange library to set a price, it would need to be algorithmic. Bob cannot update his prices on 1000 tokens in real-time
So, what is this price discovering mechanism… hmm
I totally agree, but I rather have that you start the topic, IMHO people who write code can really make something happen, instead of people who write ideas. Btw funny that you responded to this, just yesterday I listened twice to your interview with @fergish to understand “eventsourcing” better, thanks for that.
Yes, imagine if your could pay with every ERC20 tokens on every Ethereum dapps out there, this would create instant liquidity for all ERC20 token holders (a real world example is: prism.exchange would get so much money flowing through it, if Ether wasn’t the reserved token to create prisms). Almost everybody is so focus on the value of these tokens, but what’s really important is that they are used to pay for services and if you can pay for all dapps with every token you’ve just created a collective marketcap of all those ERC20 tokens. If 10000 SAFE projects all accepted/had each other tokens in their wallet it would also be easier for machine to machine payments and secretly all SAFE Network projects would become hedge funds. Fiat is a sandbox (no! you can’t pay with your currency in my country), cryptocurrencies are a sandbox (no! we only accept bitcoins), let’s not repeat that on the SAFE Network where everything is in one data bucket.
Bob doesn’t have to update his prices, if his price is 1SAFEcoin for an item, it stays that way. The wallet calculates how many tokens are necessary to satisfy that subtotal (Hmmm maybe here wallet providers could give a preference to some tokens, this needs to be disabled so that all tokens are equal). Which brings me to something that might need some workaround. Question? If I got thousand tokens that make a subtotal of 1SAFEcoin, I’ll probably need to pay a PUT for each token, but would it be possible to make a batch and reduce the PUTs?
I think Bancor gives us some clear hints. When you send your tokens to it’s contract, your tokens are exchanged at the current price + the bancor token goes up a small %, you can even adjust by how much. If you sell their tokens again, the tokens goes down a small %. In all honesty all of this is above my head, I’m just a clueless consumer. Maybe this might help The Bancor Formula.
I think that Bancor solves the liquidity problem, their problem is that most ERC20 projects don’t know about them. Ethereum project’s problem is that they are all disconnected (While Ether and the same privatekeys that can be used by each ERC20 token are their connections to each other) while they should empower each other and their users, maybe they’ll find out later.
Yeah deeply flawed this is from their SmartToken setup “@param _disable true to disable transfers, false to enable them” LOL contract owners can disable your transfer (Cyprus all over again, contract owners are the new banks).
“@dev removes tokens from an account and decreases the token supply
can be called by the contract owner to destroy tokens from any account or by any holder to destroy tokens from his/her own”
Sorry for my silliness, it would be fun if different SAFE Network projects could at some time in the future experiment with this. More important is how to get it coded asap?
Aah, cool I hope it helped.
I am quite familiar with the Bancor formula. I translated the smart contracts to C# to try to do some simulations.
I was fascinated by the proposed capability of Bancor protocol. It was almost too good to be true that it could be so powerful with such a simple algorithm. It turns out it was. Check this out, well written:
I don’t see it as a good enough solution. However, we can still be inspired by it for an idea such as yours, and there are plenty to discover in that area, the general direction of the concept is very cool.
Well, if we are going to reflect current valuation of a token, then we need some continuously updated price.
If Bob sets price in SAFECoin, then there must be some exchange rate available for the other coins that might be used for payment. This rate better reflect current market valuation as close as possible. And so a price must be set somewhere, and it must reflect the current estimated value by the market.
What this something is, could be a matter of research and invention. The traditional way is the exchange, where supply&demand from buy and sell orders sets the price, and in case of various exchanges, evened out by arbitrageurs.
Anyhow, each vendor could fetch the price from somewhere. Additionally a preference for certain tokens - set by Bob - could also be used. (preference set by wallet providers would not be good, as you mention).
I need to do more research to come further in my thinking here
Could be a good start for a topic.
I think that is a major point. Maidsafe is a protocol level innovation. Therefore it will take developers to realise the potential and bring it to the masses. Heck ethereum gets a lot of mileage zk snarks, potential of sharding etc and that’s cause developers and coin creators are already building on it. Any project being built on SAFE should be welcomed with open arms! And IMO this should be the marketing push. This creates a funnel of users, maidsafe price goes up and you have a virtuous cycle of growth. I think?!
I think what’s needed for having this kind of price and buy everything with every kind of token is a decentralized exchange. Something like an append only MD perhaps where people would append their buy and sell orders. If had some whatever tokens in my wallet and I went to some app I could then choose to show the pricing of the thing I wanted to buy in the token in my wallet, the browser/wallet could calculate the price based on the exchange rate from the current buy and sell orders, maybe I have token A and the seller wants token C, then the decentralized exchange would try to find a path from A to C, perhaps that would include first selling A for B, then B for D and finally D for C, but from my perspective it would just seem like I paid with A.
The actual exchange I guess would be something like I say I want to buy 1 safecoin for 10 fishtokens, then sellers of safecoin for fishtoken would get a push (I think this is what mpid messaging is for) then if someones sell order matched they would send me a message or something and I’d verify that they were the closest order in time to my order so that they’re not trying to cheat other users who also has some order in the order book.
Once we both have agreed that we want to do the trade, I want to give my 10 fishtokens to user B and user B wants to give 1 safecoin to me in return, we need some way to do the exchange without any of us being able to cheat.
The problem though is that the transfer has to be atomic. My fishtokens has to change owner from me to user B at exactly the same moment as user B’s safecoin changes owner to me.
I would add user B as an owner to my 10 fishtokens and user B would add me as an owner to his 1 safecoin. Now both are owners of both.
What would be needed is some multisig mechanism where user B would sign that he would release the safecoin once he has the signature that I will release the 10 fishtokens. I suppose these kinds of transfer could perhaps be built into the multisig feature somehow to make it possible to do these kind of things before computed is implemented. Not sure if this is too much of an edge case perhaps though and that it would be better done with compute.
Basically I would sign an ownership transfer for my fishtoken to user B, but with a multisig that would also require user B’s signature, in this case though, user B’s signature should not be on my fishtoken it should be on his safecoin and only when both users have signed both MDs should the signatures be valid.
Normal multisig is that an MD needs the signature of several parties for example to change the owner of the MD, in this case what would be needed is that several different MDs are signed by multiple parties before the signatures are valid. If there are two MDs 1 and 2 who both has owners Alice and Bob, the signatures of Alice and Bob on MD1 should not be valid until both Alice and Bob has also both signed MD2, so it’s basically multisig on multiple MDs instead of just multisig on a single MD I guess, where two MDs has to kinda work as if it was a single MD. The two MDs would not have the same close group though so for this to work I guess the two close groups would have to connect to each other to become like one close group for the larger MD consisting of two MDs and all, or the majority, of nodes in both groups would have to agree on all the signatures before the ownership transfers took place. I suppose if this worked it could also be extended to any number of MDs so that, say, five people all would have to sign six different MDs before the signatures of any MD would be valid. So it’s not M of N signatures, but M of N signatures on MD 1 AND M of N signatures on MD2 at the same time.
I wouldnt call Bitconnect decentralised. Its a ponzi ran by a company(bunch of scammers) the coins were ico’d by them, they sell them now, they take them in in loans, everything goes through bitconnects website, not decentralised imo
This was answered with this (Bancor didn’t get a response)
Bancor IMHO is just connecting all these disconnected projects (sorta like our idea)
Hmmmm like these guys
In Bitconnect’s case people have a CHOICE. but I guess that freemarket competition is always a problem.
Btw I’m sorry if I sound a little harsch, but around here we’re complaining about millions (kindergarten) and soon billions (secondary school) being a scam while trillions are being printed to destroy people’s lives.
@we_advance: any ETA on tokens listing on exchanges? it’s been 1-2 years already?
Honestly this is kinda like a scam, some of us invested over 10k in the crowdsale and never expected are money to be tied up for 2 years, look at project decorum they got on a exchange a month or 2 after the crowdsale.
Thankyou for your patience
Building n99 is has been a step by step process a journey of lessons learnt up and downs… One of the reasons for the delay was my beloved being in hospital with very seriously illness and compassion will always come first in my life.
You can check progress // join the n99 community https://www.n99online.net/
vis a via seed on exchanges this has been one of the main focus of the core n99 team. Feel free to contact me or @Lee_Travis @holly @dleight1 vis a via any questions etc
Building n99 as mentioned is a step by step learning process esp from my personal pov… plus we are building designing a platform on the very edge of new tech. In essence we are prodding into the void with a stick
Door is always open for you to come on LIFE IS PEOPLE as a guest to discuss n99 //SAFE etc… connecting creative people spreading word of decentralisation listening to what creative people desire in a platform this has been one of my main drives hence do LIFE IS PEOPLE at least two times a week for three plus years.
Thankyou for the patience i am at heart a creative soul with a vision i fully understand any frustration vis a via time taken building n99 path taken decisions made the mistakes etc all lessons learnt for all my failings one thing im not is a scam artist one of many reasons i have always shown by face /// flown the n99 flag in public domain, There has been is a great deal of time and energy spent by ALL the n99 core team to deliver the very best platform possible and reward YOU and all the investors in the n99 project
Thankyou for your patience
step by step the ants are coming
Thanks for the update @we_advance!
I seem to remember at the beginning it was even floated that getting SEEDS on an exchange would never be a priority, so just be thankful that it is now.
It’s not a scam - you basically invested in a startup, so this is how it often goes. You need patience.
I’m glad to see the brilliant recent progress with the proof-of-concept platform & fairly regular updates.
Keep up the great work you’ve been doing on a pretty tight budget!
The Network99 Order of Merit system is equality of opportunity where n99ers can gain rewards and status through their interaction with the network.
Portals By Mudpot
I feel similar to you that I never expected this investment to take so long. But now that I’m involved in it, I am hopeful that it will return even more than a typical investment would. I just joined the team back in June 2017. At that time I knew very little about how to build such a network. Since that time I have made giant leaps in my knowledge of coding, and the freedom to imagine and implement into a build.
Where we are depends on several things. But I assure you Holly and I are on the job and working diligently to complete the alpha phase of n99. At the end of this phase we will release the seed token at a discount in order to pay for the exchange fees. The seed will be valued at or close to 1 dollar but the seeds will be released for less than that. The seed tokens will be available on the network site and coupons will be issued, redeemable for seed-coins. We will have seeds on an exchange as soon as we finish Alpha which is expected by the end of December. This will prompt us to develop the decentralized beta version distributed content as to further safeguard freedom of speech on the network. The thing of it is Decorum doesn’t have a social network as of yet, we do. n99online.net. So now that we have a product, hopefully you can expect more than a thousand% return on your investment. The first few months of 2018 will be focused on a wallet build for seed. Your original seed investment will hopefully be the best investment you have ever made by the end of 2018. Please have patience. Or you can sell them to me at their current price, which is much lower than they will be in a few months’ time. 2018 will be a productive year for n99 and n99 investors.
Are these the seeds the ICO people we given?
@neo Yes. soon to be a scripted crypto is the goal. In other words there will be another opportunity to get seed before it goes to exchange.
I do not know if you have mentioned it before, this planned wallet is independent of Maidsafe?
What is its main function, being able to make exchanges until it can be integrated into Maidsafe or are we talking about N99 being independent of Maidsafe?
Something similar happened with Safe exchange, which started being integrated in Maidsafe and is now an independent project.