Project Decorum - Crowdsale (Ended)

project-decorum

#956

I follow this forum for number of years, @Seneca was very active member. always contribute until he raise NOW NEARLY 1 MILLION after price rise and no more, no posts, no activity.
The worse is @dirvine mention/support this project in number of post and podcast, this is embarrsing mistake for maidsafe.
2 apps now take money from the community and build nothing, they sit pretty with free money.
I will never invest in SAFE community project again, 2 times I lose money on fake project.


#957

It’s true that he’s been far less active in the community since the funds were received, which is odd, but not necessarily worrying.

I don’t get any impression that Seneca has abandoned the project at all. From his comments, he seems to be waiting until the feature set is in the core network to show what Decorum can do.

Rightly or wrongly, I also get the impression he’s given some input to the core team in terms of indicating what he needs from the Safe network platform to build Decorum successfully.

There’s not a lot he can do before the platform enables him to release an alpha of Decorum. I hope, and expect that your fears are unfounded.


#958

Perhaps, it could be, but we have met @Seneca and he seems reasonable, honest and capable. I have faith that he is extremely busy and I can really understand that. It’s not on par with safex at all, which was a great shame and looks like it was not so much a scam but very badly managed and for some reason aggressively has become anti SAFE, it may change, but we never had the same faith there (or I did not) for many reasons, some of which we have seen since.

Decorum may fail, any project can, but I know how hard it is and @Seneca has shown POC and makes insightful posts that gives me faith he follows the codebase and understands it. I do have faith, but that is personal.

In innovative space there are something like 90% failures, we should remember that in crowdsales etc. The upside can be great financially if they work out, but I look at the value to humanity first. Everyone is different but that is what I do.

In any case I do feel your pain and understand your position, we all wish @Seneca the best of luck and will support where we can (he has access to and been in meetings with us).

I blame our speed more than @Seneca delivering right now, when the new SDK is up and a few weeks go by I suspect we will see much more activity.


#959

I am following SAFE development and this forum. It’s true I post a lot less than I used to, but that’s mostly because I’m more careful in sharing my opinions since I’m a bit more of a public figure now and want to be an uncontroversial representative of this project. I’m sorry you feel this way @lostmoney, but I assure you that you’ll change your mind in due time.

Thanks for your kind words and support @dirvine. It is true that in the past months working on app implementation doesn’t feel as productive, with the upcoming switch from Appendable/StructuredData to Mutabledata and the current switch from Launcher to Authenticator. I don’t blame the MaidSafe devs though, they have an incredibly challenging job and are doing great, despite it taking longer than everyone hoped.

So yes, I am “waiting” for the ImmutableData SDK and subsequent DOM API implementation, but I’m not twiddling my thumbs. I’m researching, studying other similar projects and understanding distributed networks better. The initial ideas I presented as Project Decorum didn’t come to be in a few days, I spent many months contemplating and refining them. I haven’t stopped doing that!


#960

Second that. I can understand some of the worries, and maybe a little of the impatience too, but I do not share those feelings.

I’ve invested quite substantially in Decorum and Safe FS, and can’t wait to see this come to fruition. But I’m very patient too. I’ve said it before in same or likewise words, but quality goes above speed in my opinion. We don’t want a DAO disaster again, right? :slight_smile:

There you go! Thanks for the update, @Seneca !


#961

It just occured to me I haven’t yet publicly shared my short presentation from the SAFE Dev Amsterdam meetup some time ago. It’s a more refined concept of divisible alt-coins on SAFE that I’ve vaguely talked about on these forums in the past. It may be a bit harder to understand without commentary, but could be interesting to some nonetheless.

The first test implementation of Clikes will use this alt-coin model, with some extras.


How transactions (could) take place using Decorum
#962

Decorum is one of the projects I’m most excited about and I have a lot of faith in Harmen because much like David, he’s modest and diligent. It’s no surprise he hasn’t bothered with hype while he’s still early in development. I thought he’d made it pretty clear for us that post MD and alpha 3 we would have an active role to play in testing?!

If you’re not happy with your investment then you can sell it for slightly more than you paid for it anyway, so you haven’t lost money.

If you have too much to sell into the volume on Bittrex then I’ll buy it off you at the crowdsale price I paid for mine $0.0095c.

As David says, you should expect 90% of the risky startups you invest in to fail. But it is crazy to call something a failure before it is even out of the starting gate. If you’re impatient then you’re in the wrong game. Investing requires a lot of patience if you want to make the most of the opportunities around you.


#963

@lostmoney If you took part in the Decorum crowdsale I’m not sure you’ve lost money. SafeX too I think. And even if the price is currently down* you have not lost anything unless you have sold already.

I haven’t checked very recently, but from time to time I looked at the value of those coins and they have been in profit almost every time.

  • I’m talking pounds here, because that’s how I value investments

Someone correct me if I’m wrong, I haven’t checked today, but even if they are in loss right now, there were definitely opportunities to sell at a profit, and like David I still have faith in Harman (@Seneca) and Decorum. I felt that I got to know him quite well having so much to do with the forum, and as co-moderators, and I never saw anything to undermine that view.

I had assumed he was less active on the forum for good, understandable reasons, and these are confirmed today. No guarantees, but it is far too early to judge Harman or Decorum or say you’ve lost money because you sold too early. Once Mutable Data is out (Alpha 3) I expect we’ll get to see things moving again, and if you weren’t aware of that you weren’t following Harman or your investment adequately. Since he posts so little now, that would have been very easy to do.

With SafeX things are much less happy :slight_smile: in my mind, but it’s still possible Daniel will reward crowdsale investors. I think it is very unlikely he’ll implement on SAFEnetwork because he’s lost so much credibility by attacking MaidSafe and actively trying to undermine the project, and painted himself into a corner with baseless accusations. But who knows! I confess I’m puzzled why he’s calling it SafeX, again it seems to lack integrity.

I value integrity and values, actions based on evidence and open discussion and that is why I was drawn to MaidSafe and why I’ve stuck with it n this project, and tended to watch other projects from a distance.


#964

Both @Seneca and @bochaco are working on coin implementations for different reasons. @bochaco is working for MaidSafe and wants to give the community the first wallet App. @Seneca is working on a whole protocol for social interaction including votes/likes and more.

We’ll see quite some amazing things when the transfer of ownership becomes possible with the Mutabel Data. As far as I understand it’s a different design than Appendable/StructuredData. Both the SAFE Browser and Authenticator are coming to age in the repo’s. We actually did a little celebration yesterday because loads of stuff got merged. We’ll see the rise of a lot of apps including Decorum when the APIs are “done” and Mutable Data is in place. At the same time we have to understand that MaidSafe is making strong improvements with routing and crust. Wallets and a social protocol like decorum are very cool but you really want your account to be around if you log on several days later. So we need a strong basis (stable network) for that.


#965

lol, opposite of me :stuck_out_tongue:

i’m still as crazy as ever


#966

Mutable data is in Alpha 3? Are we in Alpha 1?


#967

We’re in test 15, which we hope will morph into Alpha 2 if it’s stable.

Next stop, Alpha 3

:stuck_out_tongue:


#968

  • So the transaction cost is equal to the price of 1 PUT of Mutable Data?
  • So after a transaction is 100% done the MD is now owned by a “dummy address” in the network, say something like: “yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyDUMMYyyyyyyyyyy” and no one could ever become the owner as the chance is as good as 0 that someone ever finds the private key that would lead to this public one?
  • And what the App (people’s wallet) does is starting from a message (received from the sender of the coin) that leads to the hash which is owned by the dummy? And from that point on the wallet can read previous hash, get that address and then the previous hash from there etc. ??

Well, this is actually quite cool. Isn’t there an option where Immutable Data is used?? That’s cheaper in price :grinning:.


#969

Yes, yes, yes and no! :smiley: This scheme relies on a predictable network addresses for the transactions based solely on the signed previous transaction data, and ImmutableData can’t provide that.


#970

Hey @Seneca I thought this was an interesting article worth sharing https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2017/03/guys-its-time-for-some-troll-theory/521046/
And now I’m curious, will WoT help filter out trolls? What kind of defenses will Decorum have against trolls, fake news, etc? If you don’t mind sharing of course :slight_smile:


#971

Man you can just now sell Decorums I just did it go check a market. If you on safex they rocking strong still even voting go away from maidsafe by the group! Bitcoin will be going up strong and I sell all of my maidsafe also project just takes long time, I lose trust and follow too long time. Good luck!

If have more safex I can buy from you please contact me.


Decorum off topic talk
#972

:joy:

Now that really is funny.

safex, lol.

Ok buddy, well you’ll get what you deserve so I’m not going to talk you out of anything.

You brightened my day with a good laugh though, so ty.

:laughing:

safex… good one. /chuckle


split this topic #973

6 posts were merged into an existing topic: Decorum off topic talk


Decorum off topic talk
#978

On topic please, this is a topic about Decorum. Thank you.


#979

@Seneca will Decorum have any kind of API? There is interest in integrating your Web Of Trust model across multiple Safe Apps so there is a standard that spans over multiple apps.

So say I trust Bob to have curated a good list of contacts that don’t post nefarious content, if your protocol had an API that other apps could use then I could easily have Bob or his trusty contact list available to me as a Decorum user across multiple applications.