Words of wisdom.
But nonetheless marketing is a widely studied discipline nowadays.
this really put a big smile on my face. Thank you guys, you are awesome!
I really think that things such as “premium”, “exclusive”, “official”, “authentic” are somehow in contradiction with distributed technology, because they imply a little dose of hierarchy (hierarchy of arriving first at least)
Yeah I know exactly what you mean, that’s why companies like Google are @ the cutting edge with almost everything they do. BTW the profit would go to the SAFE dev core team, so they can keep advancing the SAFE Network.
Here is an image from Godaddy of real exploitation happening in the real world (I won’t even mention Icann, with their grand plan to rob companies for a hundred grand per gTLD).
There is quite no other benefit from this besides a moral one. Something psychological. Making differences between normal and premium is like making differences between poor and rich. It should be the same for anybody, be it a giant business name or an ordinary man. Also, there’s something else: why shouldn’t I have the same opportunities like you, just because I had been born lately?, so to speak.
Think of something like the vehicle registration plates. The main process is that you get an ugly name by default. In some countries, if you pay extra, you get a custom name. But why is that? To show people who you are? To show them you have money and style? Also the special institutions have custom license plates, like police, firefighters etc. But on the network if it’s no authority, why use custom? Another example is on the forums. The mods and admins get bold names and colorful names and other flowerish things, to prove the superiority. On this forums we are all the same.
Everyone should put up with a (comparatively speaking) lower quality s/w (as the monies that could be obtained by selling premium names wouldn’t be obtained and invested in development) just so that someone could feel righteous about “protecting the poor” (while actually depriving them of both a higher quality (or free, or both) software and premium names.
But we’re not. Everyone knows you can’t piss off a mod, some people have more likes (and the idea that conveys is they give relatively more than the others), etc.
However, that is not the point. The point is that premium names subsidize access (and/or MaidSafe features) for the poor and you and @davidpbrown are against that.
The poor (myself VERY included) should not hunt money in this unproductive way. It’s what @davidpbrown said. The poor should make a real contribution. As well as the rich. All this premium registration names is just a race and a battle between us, the poor. We race one against other to register names for big corporatons so they could pay us. We race against each other, and the big daddies sit back ruling the big internet, and as we make their games they just come by and buy our names. We’re doing their game. So for a personal profit, we continue the nowadays game in which the more money you have, the more power you have. But since the system is redesigning, why keep old ‘values’?
It’s not so much about being against… it’s more about being for the notion within SAFE that it’s “For Everyone”, which encourages notions of equality and without preference. Indulging the rich and compounding that problem, in order to…
Does the infrastructure need that support, or is that another way for individuals to make a quick and easy (read lazy) profit?
There are many ways to skin a cat and many ways to fleece people of their money. If it’s necessary to make the system sustainable, than that is a priority but if it’s simply an idea to get rich quick, then it’s likely not in the best interests of a sustainable network.
Also, I rather do not like indulge those whose care too much for ego and image - there tends to be little value there; and then those enforcing trademarks, in ways where the underdog loses. Was it Facebook most recently… chasing Designbook, just because it contains the word “book”, which Facebook now thinks it owns just because it can force the matter through courts and bully to get what it wants.
There’s always some Del Boy or perhaps in this case Edward Trotter…
What I love about the Maidsafe team, is that they do things in a responsible/sensible manner. Like I said before, we could have a builtin mechanisme to limit the bidding price (we could vote as a community for this, I know that people would want to create a blackmarket to get around this, but even that could be solved, by letting you send a premium name and the amount getting substracted from the receiver SAFEcoin wallet (so the system works like: they don’t have to send you money, you send the premium name and the amount gets substracted). Who knows beside the limit, we could say that for every price above the limit, 50% goes towards development of the SAFE Network.
There doesn’t have to be a difference between poor and rich, if you can register a premium name and pay for it through farming. Everybody has an equal change… And aren’t there any differences in the current world? You are here right now and you beat atleast a rich person to it…
[quote=“bugsbunny, post:14, topic:4122”]
why shouldn’t I have the same opportunities like you, just because I had been born lately?
[/quote]Because it wasn’t your time yet to have the opportunity somebody had like 30 years ago. People who are not on this forum right now, are like the unborn in life’s game… It’s time to realize that you’ll have other opportunities as time past.
People have been selling domain names for years example sex.com (sorry kids I had to say that). If it’s not your thing, do what you do and make sure your happy. The only thing that I’m saying now is that even poor people have the same change like the rich people, if they could register a premium name through farming. I know that technology always reach poor people last, but it’s even worst, some can’t even create an app/farm because they don’t have the resources or knowledge about these things.
You know what unfortunate, that there are opensource projects out there that are totally unfunded, while they are essential for systems to work.
Dude a infrastructure always needs that support, example from the real world: when you do nothing about the roads, you could have potholes, which result in car damages and other problems. if people are generally greedy, why not let them pay for it in a way to support the infrastructure? I mean if you’r using the road, you should pay.
I don’t know about you but when I read things like this:
I just think that the team can use every penny that a greedy person can spend.
Why shoulden’t a fellow community member not make a profit? If it support the SAFE Network in the end? Have you check how much Icann asks for brand names nowadays? $185,000. Why should we have a name system that ignores what happens in the real world? Why shoulden’t we have that kitty that can take away the SAFE team financial worries/talks. Please don’t say me anything about morals, hierarchy or contribution. I rather see a community member receiving $185,000 for a premium name they sold atleast they’ve contributed to the development of the SAFE Network.
You don’t change things in a day (look at how many years Maidsafe took), but you can slowly change things. Having a premium name is creating a rat race, a steady kitty, but maybe it’s just all part of nature. Who knows that community member receiving $185,000 for a premium name, will get the idea to invest in the SAFE Network and create a job for 10 other people. People always invest in that which made them money. Although the SAFE Network will have it’s survival mechanism builtin, it’s missing the element that will make people GREEDY to have it. I usually don’t stimulate greed, but if it lets the SAFE Network spread like a virus and support the dev core team I’m all for it.
BTW dude if I was a millionair, this is how I would life
But it’s definitively not unproductive. By buying and later selling a name to the highest bidder, you’re doing a productive work.
You make money
MaidSafe Foundation makes money which results in more free (MaidSafe) software and services for the poor
So when Google (or Dropbox or Mega or someone) builds a feature that MaidSafe doesn’t have because it can’t finance that many developers, the rich will switch to it (or use both the feature-rich commercial or ad-driven choice and MaidSafe) while the poor will be limited to MaidSafe. Some equality!
Yes, it’s a beautiful chance for the less fortunate to make some money from the comfort of their homes.
Is it better to remain idle and poor and deprive MaidSafe of income?
I understood what you are saying: me being first on the network, I can register a premium domain and sell it to other person that comes on the network after some time. But this is what is already happening on the internet. Is this thing contributing something for the internet community? No. Is it adding value to something (be it pure theoretical)? No. Does it make something better? No. It is just a marketing scheme at best and a hunt targeting the name and fame of success business at worst.
If I had been born yesterday and you have been born today, I have to make a better future for you, or at least as good as my future. That’s how a specie evolves. I DO NOT have to have an advantage over you just because I’m older.
You talk from the person point of view, I talk from the environment (system) point of view. I wouldn’t mind to register some domain names and fill my pockets over time selling these. But where’s the contribution I do for the community? Why there has to be regular and premium? Why not just keep the old fashion and make them ALL premium?
You were born today and you envy the person that was born yesterday for being able to register sex.com on the internet? Well, continuing this scenario the person which will be born tomorrow will envy you for being able to register sex.com on the safenetwork. And so on, and so forth. But this just generates envy and unproductive race between us. I do not think registering domains should be a profession at all, because it solely implies the fact of arriving first and do not produce any kind of value. In a distant way is something like: It’s mine because I saw it first. Do you find it normal in any matter (economically, ethically etc) that sex.com is sold for millions of dollars? Will I be able, as a poor man, to buy it? No. Will other 90% of population be able to buy it? No. Then maybe there’s something wrong?
Let’s assume this idea gets adopted. Now, you can spend 2-3 hours of your free time to register 100-200 names, sell them at a profit to the rich (& stupid, perhaps, since there’s no value in them) and donate all that money to some homeless shelter.
Effectively you can use just 2-3 hours of your time to earn thousands of dollars from the rich and give them to the poor and at the same time donate (say) $1000 to the MaidSafe Foundation.
Instead, you think it’s nobler to watch TV or do something just for yourself (how selfish is that?), not have the Foundation earn that $1K and let the homeless freeze or starve or whatever.
Yes, I find it normal and desirable. Instead of asd.com (or 18.104.22.168), I can go to sex.com. The domain name makes it easy and convenient and - other factors being equal - makes me more likely to go there than to asd.com.
And I don’ t have to pay a single penny to benefit from money some rich guy spent on that domain! In other words, I can be poor and still benefit from the high price of the domain sex.com.
Now imagine if it was sold at a price that - according to you - corresponds to its “real” value (say, $1 required for the maintenance of DNS registrar and root name servers). It may have been bought by some religious fanatic and set to redirect to their site. Like with the MaidSafe premium names, you’d obviously prefer to have thousands of poor people go to Google to search for sex rather than freely enjoy the convenience of being able to go to sex.com.
Or (even worse), we could set it up so that some porn magazine (which one, it should be decided by an “independent” commission set up by the government, I guess) buys sex.com for $1 even though there are magazines or porn producers who are perfectly willing to pay $1 million.
Having a premium name gives SAFE community members a valuable property, which if it can be sold will enable them to give back to the SAFE Network.
If adding valua to who register and to the dev core team to further develop the SAFE Network
If the dev core team are able to get enough funds through this system, they don’t need external funding and can hire other people to improve/analyse/try to crack the SAFE Network. So I would say that that’s better.
I’m ok with all accounts being premium, I prefer this, as long as the money it generates goes to the dev core team.
Dude I don’t envy people, I’m happy for whoever registered sex.com on the old internet. Our luck/chance is now that eachone of us could register it on the SAFE Network. Which proofs that future generation will always get their opportunity as time past.
Dude I’m also not super rich, but I don’t envy or got problems that someone else sells sex.com for millions. It’s their luck and it’s funny that people are willing to pay sucha price for a name on a system. BTW your not a poor man, because if your here, your ahead in comparison to some people who are super rich and totally unaware of Maidsafe. If your life improves, you’ll be able to improve that of people around you.
All accounts cannot be premium at the same time. There can be paid access (which is what “all accounts are premium” means).
There were numerous suggestions to give away small amounts of SAFE (or - same thing - a small amount of gratis storage capacity), so the idea to charge for accounts conflicts with that idea which seems to have a fair amount of supporters.
Actually this suggestion is a good example of what’s wrong with the anti-commercial view: by making all accounts premium, the relatively poorer prospective users would be disadvantaged and for no reason whatsoever (because clearly from monies obtained for premium accounts sold to “the rich”, the Foundation could fund free accounts for “the poor” without taking money (in the form of “free” storage space) from farmers.
Isn’t it just better to have two options? Pay up, pay later (basically paying through mining). This way you exclude no one.
I’m hoping more that the money can be used for software & hardware development.
Imagine if the foundation could develop a router with harddisk, meshnetworking etc.
Maybe we should vote again, because this is really important for the Maidsafe project going forward… I do hope that we all agree, that if we don’t financially support the dev core team, that we’re making the same mistake as other opensource projects out there.
It’s better to have a dev core team with enough money to experiment different stuff…
Yeah it’s sure doable, but by giving gratis space before delivered work you’re effectively creating debt. I know that the price of storage space might go up, thereby partially compensating farmers for the loss, but I still (personally) do not like the idea, because it complicates things (i.e. anyone who’s too poor to afford a premium name could farm with an ugly name, use earned SAFE to buy a premium name, and then use the premium name for their own activities).
I’m with you on that, but I understand that there’s some sort of agreement that incentives will be provided.
Maybe @dyamanaka or someone who followed those discussions closely remembers better (there are way too many topics that mention free storage, so I won’t try to check them all).
You guys are very smart. You would make a hell of a lawyers
Would you agree to buy premium names only with your FARMED coins, not coins brought? Just to give the very poor people the same chance as the enriched from outside people. If you’re ok, then I’m with you.
I see your point, but I don’t think that’s (directly) doable as SAFE coins are fungible (i.e. you can’t tell one coin from another).
But someone with redistributionist mindset might want to set a different price for MAID prior to 1.0 release, so that those who bought MAID (everyone did) “pay more”. Although I’m not sure how the conversion rate (MAID to SAFE) will be determined (and whether it’ll be possible to determine it ahead of the launch, because maybe in Testnet 3 it might be possible to import MAID to one’s wallet to convert it to SAFE, etc.).
Personally I am against complicating things that way. If premium names could be sold (still waiting for someone from MaidSafe to comment here - maybe it’s impossible and we’re just wasting our time here), I think it’d be nice to organize an auction and use the proceeds to fund development (and maybe to donate some capacity to people who do things that the Foundation needs, like translation, etc.).
This doesn’t really make it equal between rich and poor, but something got to give unfortunately. Poor people will have to save up for a premium name BTW they could use a pretty name @janitor something like: Lana Del Rey.
The question is:
How do we give the core development team a good financial start? Prevent people from going beserk with premium names? And make it reasonable, so that the mayority is happy?
The only funny answer, I could come up with, when I think about it is:
Make the price of a premium name € 10 and annually take off € 1. I realize that € 10 is unreachable for the super poor, but to be honest, they won’t be the first people on the SAFE Network. 10 years from now, the SAFE Network will have more users, so the lower price will be suitable then. Some might call me MAD for suggesting a price of € 10 for a premium name, but there is method in my madness, let me explain before you get your pitchforks.
On the current internet the domain name sex.com is worth millions, so if a community member could get the SAFE Network premium name sex.com it would @least be worth something. But here is where it gets interesting beside sex.com, you could register sex, sex.xxx, sext.co and .sex.
Now if you could get the premium names of the examples above for just € 10, in your full control and NO ANNUAL RENEWAL PRICE, doesn’t it seem ridiculous to ever complain about the € 10 that you would have to pay? As the current insecure internet slowly begins to fade away and the SAFE Network starts to shine brighter, it’s logic that @least the names on the current internet will be remembered and worth something. PS don’t forget the premium name www.sex.com some people might remember that more than sex.com. If your feeling sexy, register (sex, sex.xxx, sex.com, www.sex.xxx, www.sex.com and .sex) @least you’ve added €60 to the core development teams kitty. Before you think twice, think about the SAFE Network having it’s own constellation of cubesats, it’s really all worth it.
These will be my last words on this topic, because if not many in the community are responding to it, it’s probably not important.
I’ve thought about it and maybe besides the premium names, there should be an exlusive name. The exclusive names would be for brands and populair names/words.
So a premium name would be for instance:
An exclusive name would be: google and include everything before and after the dot (google.org, www.google.com and .google) so somebody woulden’t be able to register google.tv because it’s included in the exclusive name google. People could for instance register googleplex, because it’s not the exclusive name: google. I think a exclusive name would be usefull because big brand names woulden’t want to be id’d through a 10 digit character.
I would suggest a price of €100 for the exclusive name. I might be wrong about this, but I don’t think our names are important enough to register as an premium/exclusive name, unless it’s a brand name, superstars name or a populair word. If we are talking about Secure Access For Everyone, maybe we should create the hardware to realize this dream. We shoulden’t be thinking in ways that we hold on to the old internet as our playground or go to place. I like Outernet, because their idea is to have their own hardware to reach their goals. Imagine if Maidsafe could have harwdware like this:
People woulden’t be having a net neutrality talk
Many may see this conversation as unworthy or against their morals, but maybe we need to look at the big picture. Maidsafe will be sold to the public by certain governments as a software for Terrorists, Criminals, Pedophiles and IP violators. How will we be able to educate people with no funds? Some might even think, the 5% that the core development team receives will be enough to get by. Maidsafe is picking a big fight (with the current internet), so we should have mechanisms in place to ensure it grows. A regurlar person won’t be able to buy a premium/exclusive name, but does it matter if it means that Maidsafe’s research cash increase? If Maidsafecoin prices can be manupilated with fiat currency, that’s allready a reason why it could be considered a volatile currency.
It makes no sense to have a hundred google with 10 digit characters each. I would even argue that Google woulden’t want to come in an environment, where it can’t even id itself. I do realize that domain hoarding could be the natural course of things, but if it means that Maidsafe gets another €100 for further development, I think it’s only benificial. Imagine a Maidsafe powered through premium/exclusive names, without a need to beg for money or through crowdfunding! Things will always cost money (ICANN, Namecoin, Bitshares DNS, P2P), but would it hurt us if the SAFE Network grows?