Premium-Name to add value to names

The SAFE Network name system use to work on a first come first served basis. Now as I understand it from this Project SAFE:London talk. You’ll have a name and a 10 digit character to differentiate you from people with the same name.

But woulden’t it be fun, if we also had a premium name scheme with a pricetag? This has two advantages:

  • If you come first your served first and you have the exclusive right to the name
  • The SAFEcoin price that you pay for your premium name would go towards further development of the SAFE Network. (David talked about the SAFE Network rejecting code that don’t improve it, what if it could also pay out devs improving it, directly from this kitty?)

So for instance if I register the name 19eddyjohn75, on a premium basis, there would be no 10 digit character and I would have the exclusive right to it. What this also does, is it creates an (name hoarders paradise) environment in which people can trade premium names. Now if it’s only possible for me to send you the name 19eddyjohn75 and automatically get the amount of SAFEcoins that I ask for. But I guess there’s where a smartcontract would be handy.

Yeah I do realize that if someone takes the premium name Google, that they could go berserk when asking a bidding price for it, so maybe there should be a limit to what you can ask for a premium name.

One man’s feature, is another man’s bug?

I’d rather see generic capability that impacts no-one badly. The idea suggested is undoing the system’s ability to provide a name to those who want it.

Perhaps it would be better to have some capability built on top, like https://keybase.io/ appears to offer… linking identities between different apps. Having that done in some way that allows everyone to make use of their preferred name, will likely be better than the rich imposing on the poor.

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I have stated previously that (in my opinion) the optimal strategy would be to not reinvent a MaidSafe flavor of the wheel for various services like names, DNS and so on, but it seems the Project is favoring a self-contained approach. IMO that’s not going to work, but we’ll see (if anyone wants to bet, let me know).

Premium names: I’d buy one if they were available.

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Take the name Google and all the names around it in a completely anonymous way, including the “website formerly known as Google” and refuse to use or license or negotiate in anyway shape or form- just disappear them from use. And then do decoys in the SAFE universe also claiming the Google lineage in the outside world active but in the same anonymous fashion. Strip Google of its own brand and force it to play on an un-sponsored level playing field.

But seriously, its a new world part of the draw is the homestead, the real estate market will be unavoidable latter. Likely better to let people dream and pan for gold instead of charging up front. There are dangers to too much money centralization even under a DAO. Some overhead may not carry its weight.

I get what you mean, but I don’t really see this as impacting anybody bad. If you would want to purchase a premium name you would have to pay for it. The money you pay for your premium name would go to the SAFE team for further development of the network.

If companies like Google are willing to spend 100K for a gTLD on the current internet. I see no harm why they shoulden’t pay a SAFE community member a nice price to get the premium name Google. I don’t like the first come first served model, but if it brings money in to further develop the SAFE Network, I think it’s perfectly fine.

To be real honest, I don’t think that the SAFE Network would have to worry about investors. Because a lot of people would be busy with registering premium names, that they can sell later. Imagine what for a impact it could have if a poor student registered Google and later on Google decides to come over to the SAFE Network. Just this small purchase, could be life changing for this student. Doing things that’s life changing, that’s what I like most about the MaidSafe project. I don’t know if any of you have taken a look at the domain registrars lately, but they are selling domain extensions like crazy. And sometimes really high prices…

Here is something crazy on godaddy you can register: bestbro.com
It’s a premium cost €913.08 renewal cost €14.99, some premiums stay @ the same purchase price for renewal. (did I just make you money, because if your register it now, who knows you might sell it later for much more)

Just now i’ve thought about it, because how would it look like if the SAFE Network had an premium name scheme. The first problem I came across, was the same name game. Let’s say that I want to register the name: 19eddyjohn75

Let’s say that there are allready 3 other 19eddyjohn75 each with a different 10 character ofcourse. How to solve this problem, because others have register the name before me? Imagine if I could register the premium name 19eddyjohn75, what happens is that I pay for the premium name and I also have to pay the other 3 people who registered before me. But because I choose the premium name I’m entitled to the name, so the other 3 people have to change their name. I hope people realize that with a premium name you no longer need the 10 characters, that we’ll have a name marketplace and an income flow that will gurantee the further development of the SAFE Network.

I know that there are people out there that will probably say, hey this is unfair, how about poor people who can’t afford a premium name? It’s up to the community to decide what the premium price will be. Maybe you could also reserve a premium name and pay for it through mining, I don’t know everything, what is necessary is that we ensure Maidsafe further development. When you look at how many project don’t succeed because they are underfunded. If we don’t got a kitty ready for future development, maybe we’re just fooling ourselves, because the network will need to constantly evolve. I would pay 1000 euro’s in a heartbeat if the SAFE team needs it to further develop the Network. Having a premium name is saying: I got something totally unique and I fully support the development of the SAFE Network.

Take Google
:stuck_out_tongue:

Anyone frustrated that their name was taken, might not engage with SAFE.
There’s no upside to allowing name squatting, except for those wanting to fleece new users.

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Everybody who would get frustrated from sucha event. [Here is a guide how to Cope With Frustration][1]. What the SAFE Network offers is way to atractive to ignore it, because you didn’t register your name first. There are so many ways that you can spell your name and people have different account names now already.

With Gmail you just get:
Someone already has that username. Try another?
Well there’s enough people using Gmail.

If the internet would get $1 in development for every time that a domain is registered, it’s current state would be completely different.
[1]: http://www.wikihow.com/Cope-With-Frustration

The for profit motive, is so dull…
Make a real contribution, rather than looking to exploit others.

It’s like arguing that there is merit in spam and junk mail. Yes, those are industries in themselves but do they add anything of value. If you really cannot imagine not being unique and having full control over your name then Here is a guide how to Cope With OCD

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Words of wisdom.
But nonetheless marketing is a widely studied discipline nowadays.

:slight_smile: this really put a big smile on my face. Thank you guys, you are awesome!
I really think that things such as “premium”, “exclusive”, “official”, “authentic” are somehow in contradiction with distributed technology, because they imply a little dose of hierarchy (hierarchy of arriving first at least)

Yeah… I’ll defer to Bill Hicks thought on marketing…

If applications want to limit names in odd ways and put themselves up against others that do not, that’s fine - competition is heathly but there’s no good reason to hobble the underlying platform.

Yeah I know exactly what you mean, that’s why companies like Google are @ the cutting edge with almost everything they do. BTW the profit would go to the SAFE dev core team, so they can keep advancing the SAFE Network.

Here is an image from Godaddy of real exploitation happening in the real world (I won’t even mention Icann, with their grand plan to rob companies for a hundred grand per gTLD).

With the premium name service

  • You would pay a reasonable SAFEcoin price (again this money goes towards further development of the SAFE Network)
  • You would have your premium name for a lifetime
  • You could sell your premium name with no middle man
  • You woulden’t need a 10 digit character
  • You would even pay the people who register the name before you (I don’t even know if this is possible, but…)

To be honest, people never had fool control (because only a fool would every believe they have control over anything) over their name. What is actually your name? because in a email system it might look like davidpbrown@gmail.com. Your phone number, bank account number, social security number doesn’t contain your name. Do you get frustrated about that?

If I take the premium name (davidpbrown), what’s stopping you to take (davidpbrown :wink:)? Only a lack of creativity would let us get frustrated about stuff like this.

On the current internet, if you want a domain name it’s gonna cost you money. Why should we not be willing to pay up money to support the people who build the SAFE Networks infrastructure?

Domain squatters make a real contribution: they reserve a domain name just for you so it doesn’t get taken by your competitors.

Somebody has to do the boring work…

It’s not like spam and junk mail. With spam & junk mail, it’s unsolicited speech - completely different.
Whereas you’re completely free to ignore a domain squatter and never hear from him.

I don’t understand how someone can be against this idea.
You can think “whatever” and choose to not support it (and use a “default”, ugly name), but what is the benefit of being against it?

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There is quite no other benefit from this besides a moral one. Something psychological. Making differences between normal and premium is like making differences between poor and rich. It should be the same for anybody, be it a giant business name or an ordinary man. Also, there’s something else: why shouldn’t I have the same opportunities like you, just because I had been born lately?, so to speak.
Think of something like the vehicle registration plates. The main process is that you get an ugly name by default. In some countries, if you pay extra, you get a custom name. But why is that? To show people who you are? To show them you have money and style? Also the special institutions have custom license plates, like police, firefighters etc. But on the network if it’s no authority, why use custom? Another example is on the forums. The mods and admins get bold names and colorful names and other flowerish things, to prove the superiority. On this forums we are all the same.

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Right, it’s immoral.

Everyone should put up with a (comparatively speaking) lower quality s/w (as the monies that could be obtained by selling premium names wouldn’t be obtained and invested in development) just so that someone could feel righteous about “protecting the poor” (while actually depriving them of both a higher quality (or free, or both) software and premium names.

But we’re not. Everyone knows you can’t piss off a mod, some people have more likes (and the idea that conveys is they give relatively more than the others), etc.
However, that is not the point. The point is that premium names subsidize access (and/or MaidSafe features) for the poor and you and @davidpbrown are against that.

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The poor (myself VERY included) should not hunt money in this unproductive way. It’s what @davidpbrown said. The poor should make a real contribution. As well as the rich. All this premium registration names is just a race and a battle between us, the poor. We race one against other to register names for big corporatons so they could pay us. We race against each other, and the big daddies sit back ruling the big internet, and as we make their games they just come by and buy our names. We’re doing their game. So for a personal profit, we continue the nowadays game in which the more money you have, the more power you have. But since the system is redesigning, why keep old ‘values’?

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It’s not so much about being against… it’s more about being for the notion within SAFE that it’s “For Everyone”, which encourages notions of equality and without preference. Indulging the rich and compounding that problem, in order to…

seems unfortunate.

Does the infrastructure need that support, or is that another way for individuals to make a quick and easy (read lazy) profit?

There are many ways to skin a cat and many ways to fleece people of their money. If it’s necessary to make the system sustainable, than that is a priority but if it’s simply an idea to get rich quick, then it’s likely not in the best interests of a sustainable network.

Also, I rather do not like indulge those whose care too much for ego and image - there tends to be little value there; and then those enforcing trademarks, in ways where the underdog loses. Was it Facebook most recently… chasing Designbook, just because it contains the word “book”, which Facebook now thinks it owns just because it can force the matter through courts and bully to get what it wants.

There’s always some Del Boy or perhaps in this case Edward Trotter…

What I love about the Maidsafe team, is that they do things in a responsible/sensible manner. Like I said before, we could have a builtin mechanisme to limit the bidding price (we could vote as a community for this, I know that people would want to create a blackmarket to get around this, but even that could be solved, by letting you send a premium name and the amount getting substracted from the receiver SAFEcoin wallet (so the system works like: they don’t have to send you money, you send the premium name and the amount gets substracted). Who knows beside the limit, we could say that for every price above the limit, 50% goes towards development of the SAFE Network.

There doesn’t have to be a difference between poor and rich, if you can register a premium name and pay for it through farming. Everybody has an equal change… And aren’t there any differences in the current world? You are here right now and you beat atleast a rich person to it…

[quote=“bugsbunny, post:14, topic:4122”]
why shouldn’t I have the same opportunities like you, just because I had been born lately?
[/quote]Because it wasn’t your time yet to have the opportunity somebody had like 30 years ago. People who are not on this forum right now, are like the unborn in life’s game… It’s time to realize that you’ll have other opportunities as time past.

People have been selling domain names for years example sex.com (sorry kids I had to say that). If it’s not your thing, do what you do and make sure your happy. The only thing that I’m saying now is that even poor people have the same change like the rich people, if they could register a premium name through farming. I know that technology always reach poor people last, but it’s even worst, some can’t even create an app/farm because they don’t have the resources or knowledge about these things.

You know what unfortunate, that there are opensource projects out there that are totally unfunded, while they are essential for systems to work.

Dude a infrastructure always needs that support, example from the real world: when you do nothing about the roads, you could have potholes, which result in car damages and other problems. if people are generally greedy, why not let them pay for it in a way to support the infrastructure? I mean if you’r using the road, you should pay.

I don’t know about you but when I read things like this:

I just think that the team can use every penny that a greedy person can spend.

Why shoulden’t a fellow community member not make a profit? If it support the SAFE Network in the end? Have you check how much Icann asks for brand names nowadays? $185,000. Why should we have a name system that ignores what happens in the real world? Why shoulden’t we have that kitty that can take away the SAFE team financial worries/talks. Please don’t say me anything about morals, hierarchy or contribution. I rather see a community member receiving $185,000 for a premium name they sold atleast they’ve contributed to the development of the SAFE Network.

You don’t change things in a day (look at how many years Maidsafe took), but you can slowly change things. Having a premium name is creating a rat race, a steady kitty, but maybe it’s just all part of nature. Who knows that community member receiving $185,000 for a premium name, will get the idea to invest in the SAFE Network and create a job for 10 other people. People always invest in that which made them money. Although the SAFE Network will have it’s survival mechanism builtin, it’s missing the element that will make people GREEDY to have it. I usually don’t stimulate greed, but if it lets the SAFE Network spread like a virus and support the dev core team I’m all for it.

BTW dude if I was a millionair, this is how I would life

But it’s definitively not unproductive. By buying and later selling a name to the highest bidder, you’re doing a productive work.

  • You make money
  • MaidSafe Foundation makes money which results in more free (MaidSafe) software and services for the poor

So when Google (or Dropbox or Mega or someone) builds a feature that MaidSafe doesn’t have because it can’t finance that many developers, the rich will switch to it (or use both the feature-rich commercial or ad-driven choice and MaidSafe) while the poor will be limited to MaidSafe. Some equality!

Yes, it’s a beautiful chance for the less fortunate to make some money from the comfort of their homes.
Is it better to remain idle and poor and deprive MaidSafe of income?

I understood what you are saying: me being first on the network, I can register a premium domain and sell it to other person that comes on the network after some time. But this is what is already happening on the internet. Is this thing contributing something for the internet community? No. Is it adding value to something (be it pure theoretical)? No. Does it make something better? No. It is just a marketing scheme at best and a hunt targeting the name and fame of success business at worst.
If I had been born yesterday and you have been born today, I have to make a better future for you, or at least as good as my future. That’s how a specie evolves. I DO NOT have to have an advantage over you just because I’m older.
You talk from the person point of view, I talk from the environment (system) point of view. I wouldn’t mind to register some domain names and fill my pockets over time selling these. But where’s the contribution I do for the community? Why there has to be regular and premium? Why not just keep the old fashion and make them ALL premium?
You were born today and you envy the person that was born yesterday for being able to register sex.com on the internet? Well, continuing this scenario the person which will be born tomorrow will envy you for being able to register sex.com on the safenetwork. And so on, and so forth. But this just generates envy and unproductive race between us. I do not think registering domains should be a profession at all, because it solely implies the fact of arriving first and do not produce any kind of value. In a distant way is something like: It’s mine because I saw it first. Do you find it normal in any matter (economically, ethically etc) that sex.com is sold for millions of dollars? Will I be able, as a poor man, to buy it? No. Will other 90% of population be able to buy it? No. Then maybe there’s something wrong?

Let’s assume this idea gets adopted. Now, you can spend 2-3 hours of your free time to register 100-200 names, sell them at a profit to the rich (& stupid, perhaps, since there’s no value in them) and donate all that money to some homeless shelter.
Effectively you can use just 2-3 hours of your time to earn thousands of dollars from the rich and give them to the poor and at the same time donate (say) $1000 to the MaidSafe Foundation.

Instead, you think it’s nobler to watch TV or do something just for yourself (how selfish is that?), not have the Foundation earn that $1K and let the homeless freeze or starve or whatever.

Yes, I find it normal and desirable. Instead of asd.com (or 28.168.98.28), I can go to sex.com. The domain name makes it easy and convenient and - other factors being equal - makes me more likely to go there than to asd.com.
And I don’ t have to pay a single penny to benefit from money some rich guy spent on that domain! In other words, I can be poor and still benefit from the high price of the domain sex.com.

Now imagine if it was sold at a price that - according to you - corresponds to its “real” value (say, $1 required for the maintenance of DNS registrar and root name servers). It may have been bought by some religious fanatic and set to redirect to their site. Like with the MaidSafe premium names, you’d obviously prefer to have thousands of poor people go to Google to search for sex rather than freely enjoy the convenience of being able to go to sex.com.
Or (even worse), we could set it up so that some porn magazine (which one, it should be decided by an “independent” commission set up by the government, I guess) buys sex.com for $1 even though there are magazines or porn producers who are perfectly willing to pay $1 million.