Poloniex trading thread

Do not bother I am tired of this place…

shame on anyone selling out of fear, that’s all I have to say.

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This is almost certainly not related to fear in any way. It’s actually something that is a constant in the relationship between Bitcoin and altcoins that has been happening since i follow the space.

To clarify; whenever BTC goes higher for sustained periods of time alts decline because many altcoin traders take out their positions from alts in BTC so that they can use them as collateral to go long Bitcoin. After all they follow the entire crypto space closely and know when it’s a good time to go long bitcoin and the best way to reap the profits is to take your alts convert them to BTC and go long BTC

When the BTC rally is over they return to their respective altcoins and the price rises back to or above previous levels for alts. I think that i saw a chart somewhere that showed that median time between the pump and alts climbing back is a week.

It would be very irrational, at least in my opinion, to think that BTC going higher would be bad for the alts so that means where it not for the margin trading (a.i. using BTC as collateral to ‘go long’) the alts would be rallying side by side with BTC,

Also it is huge plus for SAFE if BTC starts rallying just before the release of the Launcher because we will have a lot more eyeballs on our project.

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Still there are people who do it based on fear or greed or gaming, and that’s something that can be learned out of a person. All it does is push the price down even further than it’s already going. Besides, once people will start buying MAID again, BTC will be going down. It’s a pointless cycle, going nowhere, that can be alleviated by not selling at all, which overall pushes the price higher once good news for this coin/internet system finally hits. Just imagine how profound it would be if MAID was the only one that didn’t go down absurdly (it already has, and could go down even more). And everyone who sells has direct responsibility in making bad things happen for all.

Marin, how does margin trading contribute to the current asynchronous price movement of BTC and the alts?

Marin understands what is going on.

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As I said people who hold alts are pretty much all invested in BTC thus they follow Bitcoin price movement. When they see that the price of BTC is rallying the sell their alts to get as much BTC as they can, then they use that BTC as collateral to go long

So you’re saying alt holders sell their alts and use the acquired BTC as collateral in leveraged BTC positions? That does make sense. I’ve been around for about 2 years and I’ve always noticed alt prices are stable or even rising as BTC rises. But margin trading for BTC is likely more prevalent now than over the past 2 years. This certainly adds a new dynamic to the market(s).

That may be because BTC has been crashing for about 2 years.

janitor, so you’re saying BTC and alt price movements have been largely synchronous for the last 2 years but asynchronous before that?

yup

as @janitor said Bitcoin wasn’t doing too good the last two years but also another big reason is because this move has been highly anticipated for the last few weeks and on top of that there is a rumor that on monday there is going to a currency devaluation in chinese yuan (although the rumor is based in reality and the chinese will certainly have to devalue I’m pretty skeptic of such rumors).

But whatever the case may be the chinese have been buying ike crazy since their government announced a crackdown on illicit hot money outflows from china and has issued harsher capital controls. That is probably the sole reason we are seeing the difference between the chinese and western exchanges to be as much as $20 (currently $10 ) and the major driver of this rally.

All in all I think it’s a pretty good bet to invest while the price is this low in Safecoin.

nope

You said that alts go up when BTC does. That is not a fact but your feeling. Do you have any charts or evidence?

I’m pretty sure that whenever there were big BTC price movements to the upside alts have at first fallen and then after the tide is over they go up. But since I also dont have any charts and am too lazy to look for them I guess we will have to see what happens

I’m saying if you looked at this from 2011 to 2013 you might have derived one conclusion, and from 2013 to 2015 another, and if you looked at any given month between 2011 and 2015 you could derive a conclusion contrary to the conclusion from the longer term period.

We can’t know, “decentralized” cryptocurrencies are a very new phenomenon and altcoins are even newer.
Personally I don’t pay much attention to technical analysis either, although in case of bitcoin $220 was the old peak and the recent bottom (but again, maybe it’s just a coincidence).

What I believe does help is to look at the psychology of traders and probably the momentum of BTC vs. everything else (as I said above since couple of weeks ago BTC seems to be on way up). Also in case of all coins, there are various events (“news”) related to each.

I don’t look much at the charts so I couldn’t tell if it was synchronous before and async now, but even if it was, it wouldn’t tell you anything about how it’s going to be tomorrow. It’s not like gold and silver ratio (and even that is fairly useless) that contains hundreds of years of historic data about things that can’t be created on a PC - it’s virtual stuff, to some extent made up.
Suppose you create a ratio of BTC vs. all other altcoins ($ sum of all non-BTC coins listed on coinmarketcap). In 2012 (if coinmarketcap even existed, I don’t remember) maybe you’d have BTC / Litecoin. Then there was altcoin madness and nonsense coins got a ton of money, so it’d be BTC vs. (20 fairly big altcoins). Now BTC is quite weak and many altcoins are probably dying a slow death. So this kind of curve that is very short term and contains a lot of garbage data probably wouldn’t have much value.

Long story short: I don’t know, but since 1 month ago I’ve been feeling better about BTC for reasons I mentioned.

Maybe stronger BTC will make some crypto holders (because many folks hold BTC + 1 or 2 other coins) richer and more willing to spend money (aka “invest”) in their pet crypto projects and we could see another wave up for altcoins.

i’m glad that all these gamblers start panic sell MAID ! this allows real holders (like me :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye: ) to buy more MAID and cheaper :grinning:
once this crisis is over they will be out of the game and the price of MAID will be more stable.

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Exactly. Couldn’t help picking up another 11,600 maid today at masterxchange in the 4,750-5,000 satoshis price range. :slight_smile:

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I can’t believe what I am reading here about panic selling etc :smile:

TO me the only reason Maidsafecoin is dropping against BTC is because the arbitrating bots are making money out of this.

They keep the fiat price of 1 maidsafecoin constant at around $1.9 cents…

The real trade was to buy btc at $210-$220 and now to buy maidsafecoins it would have been a nice discount, but for anyone else willing to buy it they would still pay $1.9c :stuck_out_tongue:

I don’t get this explanation. Why would they do that? How do they profit from it?

The avg buy-in is $1.9c so everything above that is profit. It’s normal to see them sell everytime down to this figure until the network will launch and the value of the tokens is not that of the IPO

“holy moly, my exchange is closing down, it surely means the safe project has failed! dump! dump!”

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That probably depends when one jumped on the safe train. Nevertheless the current $1.3c on masterxchange is a real steal.