[Poll]: full OMNI to ERC20 swap

That is not how i see it.

You have to avoid at all cost that all Safecoin liquidity will be locked up in a secure, but closed and empty internet environment where nothing has been build yet.

In the beginning Safe will be forced to keep an open door to the clear net.

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@Seneca, for the Safe network there is besides the technical danger and economic and social danger …

Bitcoin, for example, is pseudo-anonymous, but the Safe tokens are completely anonymous, plus they allow you to have a voice in a network without censorship.

We do not know how the central government will react to this. It’s good to keep access to fiat.


Privacy. Security. Freedom

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If only it was that easy I would wholeheartedly agree with you. How will we tell the majority of the world to jump on their mobiles, buy SN Tokens, and start using the network? That is the heart of the issue and fleshing out how exactly this is to be done on the first truly private decentralized network. All avenues to fiat are and have been blocked in other examples that we have to draw on, and they do not rival the privacy of SN.

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My last sentence was oversimplified I suppose. But after launch we’d ideally onboard new users mainly by getting them to farm SC. Exchange support is important mostly for existing MAID owners. Having a larger MAID market would incentivize exchanges to support SC later, that’s true.

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Why would I care to farm if I can’t trade the tokens I earn?

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Thanks for the detailed clarification @krnelson, really valuable and I appreciate it a lot.

I wonder what level of risk is acceptable here? Like, to get just something small started?

I don’t know the space very well, but what about Storj? Tether omni-vs-erc20? PDC?


I wonder, what if a single person here made an erc20 coin with 452552412 coins available, announced it plus an omni deposit address, then list it on a dex?

It’ll mean some work for the single person to manage the swaps, so they have to be happy to do that work, but they’ll get part of the liquidity pool rewards for doing it. Maybe after some time they will identify the main operational pain-points and the community can help smooth them with some software automation or community participation?

Anyone can look at the omni address/txs and the erc20 contract and the dex liquidity pool to see if it’s operating as expected, no fraud etc.

It’s still a risk to both the contract owner and the trading participants, pretty high risk perhaps, but some traders will probably take it up, right?

What I’m getting at, I feel we’ve been aiming for a solution with very low risk and won’t ever get off the ground. It seems to me there’s a simple-but-high-risk way to get started on dex with a small-but-present audience. Why not try it and at least see how much of the market is open to this high risk option? It adds complexity to the maidafecoin ecosystem, but it’s reversible complexity.

If it works, maybe others will repeat the process. Then there’d be multiple erc20 coins (which is messy), but the liquidity pool can smooth it out and it also means there are various degrees of trust instead of one big multisig single contract. If one erc20 bridge fails, the others continue. A plurality of markets rather than a single community-run market.

Why doesn’t someone try implementing a very-simple-but-very-high-risk option and see if the tip of the iceberg comes to the party?

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I can tell you right away why I haven’t done it yet.

USA.

Someone will launder money through this scheme and then the Bulgarian government will extradite me to the United States and I will be in prison there for the next 10 years…

https://hvewlwlplse35wespmzingmqi4-ac5fdsxevxq4s5y-www-google-com.translate.goog/amp/s/www.svobodnaevropa.bg/amp/31044647.htm


Privacy. Security. Freedom

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I think the conversion has to be done by Maidsafe.

It will be a lot of work, but they are the only trustworthy party to change Maid-omni to a Maid-erc20.

I am not sure how easy it is to automate this process, from Bitcoin to Omni was not difficult, because it was the same blockchain. Anyway there are some very bright minds on this forum that might have a solution for this.

I don’t think this would be anything more than a change of protocol, but I am no expert.

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Kin went from ERC20 ICO to Stellar token to stellar fork to Solana token in about 3 or 4 years. That is 3 full token swap/migrations for a 100 million dollar ico with many participants.

I dont know how complicated the process is but they apparently did not find it incredibly daunting if they did it 3 times in 4 years

Yes elephant in the room… 100 million dollars raised. I think there is still something to take from that.

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Is this risk specific to Bulgaria or is this something that is broadly applicable? Could the same (or similar) kyc+aml risks also apply to maidsafe (the company)?


Perhaps there’s a simple half-way option that can satisfy both traders and holders. Maidsafe sets up a burn address. This is trivial for them to do, they could do it in ten minutes. The burn address has two purposes: 1) it allows holders and long term believers to burn their coins to be converted into ‘real’ tokens at network launch and 2) It also allows traders to ‘vote’ by burn that they want to be issued erc20 coins.

If the burn address receives enough coins (what is enough?), then maidsafe is motivated to issue an erc20 coin. If not popular, then traders are not much worse off because they couldn’t trade their unburnt omni coins anyway due to lack of liquidity. Traders can keep some of their funds unburnt if they want to still trade omni.

It’s just a quick idea, happy for holes to be poked, but I think it might work as a way to measure the current level of desire for moving away from maidsafecoin. It seems to satisfy both holders and traders. Will it work?

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Well that is exactly one of my worries, and why I don’t think we should bouncing into this without being absolutely certain.

It’s funny that folk want MaidSafe to take this risk even though it might jeopardise the entire project. (Some folks have even suggested David take this risk personally because he “will have to do a McAfee anyway”! As if there haven’t been enough personal risks along the way already).

That’s why any approach has to be legally watertight.

From that perspective the Wrapped option appeals, at least to get things going as perhaps the first of a few options, as that’s a path that has been trodden before and AML stuff is handled by Anchorage.

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Dimitar look away I dont want you to have a stroke.

Why not use the 2 CEX’s we have available.
That was largely how the project I mentioned above completed their chain migrations.

You had your tokens on Bittrex today as omni but tomorrow when you withdraw them they are erc20.

No trade on your part (I dont know if that helps with tax questions)

The exchanges are already in the business of doing this.

They simply get paid a fee to facilitate the swap.

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Isn’t this what Golem did?

Dont know about them.

As per here:

Changelly has also helped with migrations.
You deposit the old token and receive the new.
Again probably requires a fee.

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A probably controversial suggestion.
Nobody that holds MAID is to blame for OMNI falling apart.
If tax is a hurdle here nobody should be punished for the failure of OMNI.

Perhaps a vote.
When the ERC20 token is minted 20% extra are created.
These are a bonus when you convert to cover tax obligations.

I have a funny feeling that this might create more tax obligations than it aims to avoid. Aren’t airdrops taxable as ordinary income in some jurisdictions?

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Would be good if possible I agree. At the moment mobile are excluded from farming at least until some date after launch and since they are the biggest segment, it is a problem. Even if they are not excluded and can farm, we are still Ignoring how people will spend their SN token on a new hard drive, for example. Where will the ramps to the fiat economy come from?

As mentioned elsewhere on the thread Omni protocol has steadily been delisted from exchanges now that Tether no longer needs it. Maid is the last project standing on it.

After launch, then what? If still no way for mobile to farm and no fiat on/off ramps due to FATF “no privacy coins” rule, so chances of mainstream CEXs listing are slim. That means no way for farmers to buy new hard drives with their tokens. Best case we get to list SN token on some really far out there CEX that does not mind flaunting FATF rules. Cross chain DEXs will not likely work with SN it has no chain.

The ERC20 proposal would serve as the indirect on and off ramp back to the fiat economic system, shielding SN from FATF and exchange rules at least until it gets big enough to bully FATF into submission if that is even possible, or decentralise around it into the fiat system despite the rules. We could also leverage a similar coin like Binance BSC etc there are a few to choose from I don’t care about how exactly - I just care that the problem is recognised for what it is and some workable solutions at least proposed and debated. I’d love to hear some other ways to bridge the gap. So far we have philanthropy or employ the masses as the best suggestion.

Also all this suggests ERC20 or similar will have use far after SN launch so people can use their debit card and mobile wallet to buy Maid-erc20, and preferably the most decentralised swap contract to exchange them to SN Tokens and back again. I am hoping the bearer certificuits can help greatly with this exact thing. Point is maybe Wrapped the company and bank behind it will be way to conservative and block us from changing Maid ERC20 to SN Tokens (via bearer certs) in the future.

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Is it possible to make an agreement with Binance. Maybe they can carry out an omni / BNC swap on Binace Smart chain for a fee that also includes listing fees for Binace?