[Poll]: full OMNI to ERC20 swap

Community
381

Great post as usual @mav but yeah it has some major plot holes that could conservatively put your figures off by an order of magnitude or three. Bittrex is the least worst option for trading Maid at the moment, but it certainly is no place the majority of people would keep their funds or provide “liquidity”: There is almost zero incentive to do so, and a much longer list of scary negative reasons not to do it. For this simple reason extrapolating current Maid CEX volume to any DEX scenarios is a really long shot. Security and Incentives reign in this space, more on this below.

That statement is a long long from where I am standing and what I have written about on this topic for years - I am surprised this is your take away. I have expressed the problem and possible solutions in Maid-e previously over many years, but here is a quick summary starting with the “worst” one I have seen erroneously leveled time and again: “That this is just a few greedy people who want to drive up the price, get rich quick”:

I have a modest amount of MaidSafeCoin sitting in deep cold storage not doing me, this project, or anyone any real good. On Uniswap or similar I can add them to the liquidity pool alongside some other pair that I own, say Ethereum. Why would anyone bother?
A) Instead of some CEX profiting from trading activity while I take all the risk (stealing or locking my funds, extorting me on the transfer fee out etc), I can instead personally collect those juicy trading fees for myself. Sometimes my Maid-e at risk goes down as price rises, but my eth will increase then vice versa when the Maid price decreases. I collect the fees for being a liquidity provider and get to re-invest the fees in more Maid if I wanted. Oh and I keep control of the keys - security. I could have let my Maid just sit there working away for the last few years and forgot about them… good for me and good for the project, but why exactly good for the project?

B) “Liquidity” increases as Maid-e holders move some of their stash into the DEX pools and eat CEXs lunch, sure, but that is not the real benefit or what brings real sustained value to the project. The vast community of decentralised developers and dApp users reside in that space. A Maid-e bridge over to the largest pool of decentralised developers, dApp users and where they have their accumulated wealth stored allows easier transition to the future SN. Developers developers and dApp users! They are all over there in the hundreds of thousands+.

What do I mean by “easier transition to SN”? If we were to launch next month there is only one small segment of potential new users that could sign on:

  • The few that will risk using a couple of questionable CEXs, then shuffling in on Maid-o transition mechanism.
  • Those with a desktop machine/rented servers to earn SN tokens directly.

Everyone else is excluded, especially mobile users other than read only.

Just to take the top concerns:

  • FATF will keep ultra private SN token off CEXs and away from direct fiat onramps like localbitcoins. Evidence for this posted previously.

  • Native SN Dex will be unavailable for how long, months, years? (See last paragraph here). Then add extra time for stablecoins to reach SN. Fiat onramps have a chance of never happening.

The best “against” I have seen so far:

  • @happybeing said that those on the inside could pay those on the outside to work for them. That assumes Mechanical Turk like DEX on SN which brings us back to the time to implement problem, and it reeks of haves and have nots… looks ugly.

  • @dirvine and team are going to pull a rabbit out the hat and we are set to get bearer certificate SN Token. Amazing and extremely useful for sure …but… it is the same problem as before: the haves paying the have-nots that they know in bearer certs, or some other form of philanthropist endeavour. A mass worldwide release of SN Token Gift cards for purchase could work, but I don’t see it being likely… FATF. Also try selling them and see how fast your pulled up on money laundering charges.

  • Jim raised possibility of using Maid-o with Thorchain as a lifeline to wider market. This could possibly do it and is the most promising solution outside of Maid-e so far. Do not know what the DEX situation is on Thorchain but would expect it to be decent.

I have seen nothing else addressing the enormous scale of the problem. I have not even seen much recognition that this is even a problem at all!!! Probably because most community members here are already hoarding a pile of MaidSafeCoin for years now, they want to keep it this way.

The proposal here is a relatively simple, actionable solution: New users already interested in decentralised tech hears about SN and that there is a simple Maid-e onramp. They jump on their favorite non custodial mobile wallet, some use their debit card, and they purchase Maid-e directly instantly via Uniswap or similar. They then send it to an exchange contract and receive their SN tokens shortly after… ready to use the SN. If they need cash to buy more hard drives then the process is reversed. Replace Maid-e with Maid-o and Thorchain as also very viable solution. Nothing else even comes close… does it?

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382

Great to see all angles being covered here.

I would caution against this belief, if it were simple somebody would have done it. We have been down several paths so far and none are simple. If it were simple then it would be a really simple list of exact technical points of what must be done. Not do a swap or similar statement, but what API to call in each system and what logic is needed for each step.

I see many folk suggest something is simple, I know 2 projects that went omin → erc20 and both have said it was a lot of work and much more hassle (having to run private servers etc. and then support etc.).

A simple solution would I believe be jumped on. Even if it was not so simple as just follow a few commands, then perhaps it’s s simple sub contract to do X, but even X seems to be a moving target. That makes people nervous.

i.e. The end result needs clearly defined then the path to it. Then I think folk can see here is the work or cost or both, here is the end result. Then it’s an informed choose and perhaps a better approach?

So nobody ignoring the potential issues with OMNI, we are all aware there are issues (as with everything), but the issues need measured against definite proposals I reckon.

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383

I was thinking from a technical standpoint vs the scale of the problem it solves as outlined in my post above. In terms of hostile UK laws and deliberate tax uncertainties, I agree that that side of it is certainly not simple for Maidsafe. The technology is pretty straight forward just look at what PDC could do in a short time on a shoestring budget. It is only the jurisdiction that makes it hard. That is why most companies operating in this space are in far flung places. Even Maid-o exchange #1 Bittrex Global packed up and moved to Bermuda… to make life simple. Not suggesting MaidSafe should do this of course…

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384

I would let Harmen speak for himself, but we did speak after he went through that (as we weere considering it seriously at that time) and it was not simple at all. It seems it was a lot of work and hassle. I think it still is hassle for the guys there. I see posts even now for folk to swap and I know the guys have to do work.

Then the risk of that server getting hacked etc. must be hellish.

No worries at all.

385

I wonder if Seneca would describe what they did as ‘simple’. I agree with David that the word is often bandied about without understanding, and I find it is frequently misleading.

[Inserts video about those asking an expert to create a system of seven red perpendicular lines, including some green and some transparent]

386

Yes better if it is not necessary at all. Love to hear other simpler solutions not wedded to any idea here… but slow going even getting the potential looming problem recognised.

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My proposal here boils it down to an even simpler technical level. No servers required that was a fancy add-on. Of course hostile UK institutions shoot it down, not technical difficulties.

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388

Scale.

(not the future of finance IMO, SN s/could be).

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389

Interestingly, 63% of voters (people who are actively interested in the project to enter the forum once every 2 weeks) want to receive an alternative full version of the OMNI token.

This raises the question of how we will manage the future of Safe.

Will there be a built-in voting mechanism? Who will make the final decisions after a vote?

Privacy. Security. Freedom

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390

I believe there were about 60-80 voters in that poll - no? That means only about 50 users out of the entire forum which must number in the multi-hundreds wanted to commit to the conversion. I don’t consider that an indication of majority support, much less overwhelming support which is what that proposal should garner to proceed, imo.

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There are 131 voters. That’s almost twice as many participants (measured in likes) as the weekly dev update resive…

Plus 1/3 of the forum cannot vote because it is not level 1…

Privacy. Security. Freedom

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392

So app. 83 voters on the forum out of 561 active over last 30 days felt strongly enough about moving forward to vote yes? Still, not a strong showing given how controversial the conversion has been. Sorry, @Dimitar, I appreciate your efforts, as always (I’m the one that said you should be voted into the Safe Hall of Fame) but I just don’t think the proposal has adequate support to proceed. Far be it from me to throw a monkey wrench into anyone’s plans to do so though. Have at it, but I would say, make sure it is voluntary and will not affect those who choose not to participate.

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393

I don’t think Safe has a future where “we” will manage it.

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We are not talking about the technical functioning of the protocol. We are talking about the direction of development. Of course, the community will decide what to run on their computers, so it will be important for developers to know what the community wants.

We are the network. The protocol is strong only as strong as the community behind it. If the community has no voice, then people are just slaves and replace one master for another.

Privacy. Security. Freedom

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395

Was just brushing up on Thorchain basics and came across this paragraph which gives another take on why extrapolating CEX trading volume to any possible future DEX liquidity provision is bound to be off by a wide margin. Substitute Bitcoin for Maid…

Under “Billions of TVL on the Sidelines” (TVL: Total Value Locked)

There is currently around $1,000,000,000 worth of Bitcoin wrapped as wBTC on Ethereum, and that number is quickly growing. Why? Because with the rise of DeFi, token holders do not want their assets to sit idly by in cold storage when they could be staking, farming, or providing liquidity in order to generate yield on their assets. Native Bitcoin doesn’t have any DeFi applications, so holders are flocking to Ethereum in order to allow their assets to be productive. But many, many Bitcoin holders are old school, and are adverse to the idea of wrapping their tokens on another chain or interacting with Ethereum at all. There is $200 Billion worth of BTC doing nothing . With THORChain, Bitcoin holders can stake their native BTC . This has not been possible before THORChain, and represents billions of dollars of TVL that can enter the network. The same is true for assets on any other chain – which also represent many more billions of potential TVL, and this is why THORChain represents a breakthrough in decentralized exchanges .

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396

Of all the IBC DEX’s I think Gravity is going to be king although Thorchain is getting more attention right now.

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Possibly, although I doubt Inter-Blockchain Communication protocol will make it to Omni/Bitcoin anytime soon, so not of much use for this project. Thorchain also will probably never support Omni there are only 99 ThorNodes and they only take “economically viable” cross chain projects. SN is not a chain so SN native will also be unlikely.

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398

I’m trying to understand this better; which part is off by so much, or is it all of it?

If the figures are off by that much, is there any point in coingecko having a list of liquidity and trade volume for dex pairs? If someone more experienced than me were to do an accurate analysis using that data, what would it look like? How would it differ? I’m really curious, because it feels like dex pairs reported with different liquidity should actually have different liquidity, right?

I see what you mean around the motives for liquidity, how it’s not a greed thing, I get that. But I don’t understand why it’s so difficult to get some quantitative measure for the benefit or the cost of moving to a dex (especially the benefit). Any chance of getting some improved numbers? If analysis is not possible or too difficult, why is that?

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399

I think @krnelson is talking specifically about our token. Our community is extremely different from the average. 94% of our tokens have been in a cold wallets for over 7 years now.

This is something unique for the crypto world. The mass of holders of MAID does not trust the centralized exchanges because of our bad history with them.

If we have a secure way to provide liquidity, our community will probably provide it. This secure way is a decentralized exchange in my opinion.

Privacy. Security. Freedom

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400

This is exactly how I feel about it. The only difference is that I didn’t vote. I’m still on the fence. If SNtoken is due within a year or so, then NO…otherwise YES.