Planning a Maidsafe community exclusive Crowdsale:feedback needed

Yes, developers need to make money. That was the whole point of the developer rewards built into the SAFE network.
You can’t just appoint yourself to be the second most valuable thing the the cryptocurrency space because you want to quit your job. You are asking us to take 100% of the risk (ok, maybe you have contributed some already…$1M worth of risk anyway) for 0.05% of the rewards (10000/21000000). I am not mean enough to assign adjectives to this proposition.
To potential users (not founders) of this wallet, what are they going to get out of it that they won’t get from the free wallet, aside from having to look at ads?

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Thanks for the response to my comments @19eddyjohn75.

First of all let me tell you that I like your enthusiasm. I know you are a huge SAFE supporter and that you want to contribute to this network and the community in a positive way. Having said this I will respond to your comments.

If an app is popular the network will pay the creator for making an important app. How much this will be isn’t sure for now of course, so this would not cover an initial investment. I’m not expecting devs to work for free, although there are lot of devs that work on free software in addition to paid jobs/projects.

The fact that free users would be able to turn off advertisements doesn’t make sense to me. Now of course there will be users that won’t and perhaps even click on the ads (assuming they are clickable), but most would just turn them off. This means less income for the initial investors. To me it would make more sense to make it ad-free for a small amount of BTC/SAFE (like a few $ worth for example).

You’ve mentioned 100K accounts in total, but perhaps that may have been a type-o in your original post.

Now 900K is a LOT of money. I think it’s way more than needed just to develop the app. I’m not an expert though, so perhaps some others can weigh in on this.

You also mention some other activities (SAFE Pod, Direct sales company, Webshop, Dev kids) are those to be funded by the 900K as well? How much of the money raised will go in to each? What will each of these activities gain the company financially? When you list them like this I’m thinking, sure makes sense this can contribute. But if you invest 200K into these combined they should bring in at least as much and preferably more. I don’t see how we’d make more money from ‘Dev kids’ than we’d have to put in to it. Not that I don’t think it’s “the right thing to do to help SAFE” but as an investor in a company I don’t see how that would benefit me.

You are right, these didn’t make sense either. The DAO proved that, Ethereum still needs to be seen. Sure it made a lot of people rich, but there’s not just winners in that game. Also with both of these there was the possibility to make gains simply by selling the coins/shares. It’s a different “scheme” than the one you are listing here.

By data I meant actual numbers as in with X amount of users and X amount made on ads per month/year, this means $ per founder account per month/year. Also data in relation to what the money raised will be spent on, so not just development but also other activities / roles.

Like I said I know you mean well, but I think if you are aiming to make 900K you will need more than just the information you posted. You need a business plan, people with experience running a business supporting you, etc. Now I’m not saying you can’t pull this off or that this is a bad plan in general. I just want to make sure that if people invest in this plan there needs to be a certain chance of success, because if this much is invested and it becomes a failure it will cost more than just the money lost in the form of bad PR for the network and people hesitant to invest in future pitches for apps.

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I’m just home, but I’ll get back to this tomorrow.

million dollar pixels lol

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I never take risks when it comes to keeping my investors money save and my company alive. Because we’re just a startup all advertising money will go to my company, so that we can stay operational. Fun fact is the company has been alive since feb 2016, but as CEO I don’t have a salary and only pay my devs to do the necessary stuff to get software working. I don’t even have a office or people working full-time, all just to cut costs. Ad money will be paid out to the founders when we reach 100K founders accounts sold, it might seem unfair, but I’m really not taking a risk. If people can’t understand that our company needs a strong foundation and that they can even make a little money on the side by telling other people about this project, they can always move on to the next offer.

Although this community can get one of these founder accounts for 0.1 btc and the first 90K will get it at a price of € 120, the eventual price of these founders accounts will be sold for € 1000 p/a. The first 100K are the early adopters, the 1% that breathe live into this wallet. Before we reach the phase of “wow eddyjohn has gone insane, so he’s pricing this wallet at 20.9 M * € 1000?”. Let’s look at the numbers first, without the help of this community, if I sell 100K and each founder account had an referral for example, that means: My company raised €10M and paid out €2M to the founders through referrals.

What if I hit 100K users and there are totally no advertisers? Well that’s not really a problem I think, the wallet has different business models. One of the first things that we’ll add is the possibility to create altcoins and do a crowdsale from within the wallet, but to do that you’ll need a founder account. 1 crowdsale costs 1 founder account, that 1 founder account goes to whoever bought the first founder account, second crowdsales founder account goes to the second person who bought a founder account etc.

I’ve looked at getClef and plan to have a Login As A Service based on SQRL, so this another products who revenue will go to the founders.

Bitonic.nl is a super simple way to buy bitcoin straight through your bank account, I’m planning a similar service to offer SAFEcoin.

What I’m also planning to setup is farming contracts and it’s pretty simple. My company pays the internet bills of these people with 10GB and in return they farm SAFEcoins and revenue goes to the founders if ad money doesn’t come in.

There are other business models, but I won’t talk about them because those will really bring in money for the founders. The ad pitch is just to grab people’s attention, but the real big fish here I won’t say a word about, that would be foolish and give copycats ideas before I even made my first move.

900K is valuing the founders accounts at 2.1M btc, my asking price of € 1000 per founder account after the first 100K sold is valuing the founders account at € 20B. Some might call me insane (mister dreamland) even think this is impossible, but all I have to say to those people is: I’m here to grow the SAFE Network, if you think you can do it by being disgruntle on a forum good luck with your activity. People who support me will quick understand my logic and the prices. You don’t create a SAFE Mesh Network by talking only.

I’m not really in favor if making projections, my way has always been idea/do/see+learn quick/adjust. The only thing that is for sure for me is the prices, that the founder account will cost. Even with ad revenue for the founders, the farming contract is a must for me to grow the SAFE Network especially with those internet speeds.

In my mind companies should be minimized, let the apps do the work for the users. Everybody with a founder account is the company and running the business, reason why I give hints like the prices is so that we reach a value that this can become a DAO that can do things for the SAFE Network that will make it be more decentralized software/hardware wise. The marketing company that I want to work with is a company that I worked for in the past, they do door2door sales and are located everywhere.

We already see how Facebook and Google are pushing the internet to their advantage. If we can create a unicorn in our space and have the money to create our own decentralized solutions I think we’re better off. I’m a salesman I’ve heard thing in door2door sales like: I have a realtionship with your mother and I respond “MotherF***”. I’ve heard things on the phone like “die” and they hang up. I call them back again and said “Life Long And Prosper”. :stuck_out_tongue:

I spend 2 years living off € 700 p/month even now I live at my moms place simply just to cut costs. It’s just because I don’t got a lot of money that I don’t have solarpanels, pavegen, compost toilet and use a slingshot water purifier to recycle my water. I always structure what I do and want to accomplish based upon what I can do within a small space with limited resources. If a office space is above € 400, I wouldn’t take it, unless it brings in money through hackathons or conferences. I absolutely don’t need the 900K, but it’s just to work on people’s perception of this project. Even if nobody in this community is willing to invest, it’s ok, I don’t give investment advice, only thing that I know is when I say I do, I do something.

I can manage selling this as a lifetime of admoney for early adopters € 120, early majority € 1000. :stuck_out_tongue: I hate the price control, but it’s the only thing that’s gonna help me to create SAFE Mesh Networks. Besides people are free to sell their founder account at whatever price they want.

Yeah it would seem like I’m selling laughing stocks, but atleast I determined how many people I want to introduce this year to the SAFE Network, I’ve even determined the value of my laughing stocks, so yeah LOL HODL :kissing_heart:

It’s obvious that you believe in the success of your company, but so far you have not managed to convince me. I think the average investor wants to hear more details about why this is such a good plan / investment. So far your sales pitch seems to be that this is going to be great and that if people don’t believe you that’s fine and it doesn’t matter if they invest or not - it will be a success either way.

I feel there is a mismatch between the amount of funds you are seeking and the level of professionalism of your business. If you were looking for let’s say ~30K to build this wallet app then I’d think it would be alright to “just have an idea” and to not have all of this planned out and to have sought help from experienced (financial) professionals. But aiming to raise 900K or even more I think you will need to make a (public) business plan and perhaps look into acquiring help from experienced professionals.

In case of the ~30K I think people wouldn’t mind investing 10/20$ in this pitch. If you lose that kind of money it’s not a big deal, and there’s a chance that something good will come from it. Your plans to raise a huge amount of money and to sell a 100.000 accounts (via door-to-door / peer-to-peer) sales just don’t seem realistic right now. To me it kind of comes across as some sort of pyramid scheme even though I’m sure it’s not meant to be one.

I’m sorry if this comes across as a very negative response, but you asked for feedback and I’ve just given you my honest feedback.

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At the moment I’d have to be pretty hard-nosed about making any more risky investments. Something would have to be offering me more upside than safecoin in order for me to sell any maids to invest in it. Or it would have to come with much lower risk. This project comes with all the risks of being dependent on SAFE and a load of additional risk within itself, yet does not really offer any greater upside than safecoin from a market cap of just $50m imo, even if your app were to be the next fb for ad revenues.

Maybe when the market cap is $500M and 100x’s in safecoin look further away, then I’d invest a load of those profits into other projects with more upside.

I think you are full of good ideas. I particularly like the idea of paying the internet connection for people in order to farm on it - like people who paid for solar panels on other people’s houses for the income and the householder gets some free power and increased property value. I think a lot of people in fibre optic areas would happily take free internet/phone connections to have half the advertised speed, giving the other half to you to farm.

Doing something like that would have quite low overheads to set up too. You could literally go door to door in superfast connection areas which are not that wealthy.

I’d definitely invest in an idea like that, not that it would require any big capital outlay or crowdfunding effort tbh.

Personally I would never pay for a wallet unless I had no other choice. I’d also avoid adverts at all costs and would not want to be paid to view them. I haven’t had a telly since 2001 because I refuse to watch adverts. Not that it matters what an oddball like me thinks really, I’m sure many would love the wallet idea. I find it hard to get excited about though. Sorry bro, but as it stands I wouldn’t be able to invest anything unless it can beat out MAID and you shouldn’t feel too bad about the fact that’s a pretty impossible challenge until more people realise how amazing it is and the price has shot up. I stick with my first bit of advice, be patient and keep plotting and planning for now. Peaking too early is always a bad idea :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

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Hi eddie, as others have noted you do a lot for the MaidSafe community and deserve as much feedback as possible. I’m very much in the same situation as Jabba, waiting for more of the full potential of the MaidSafe network to become apparent and also for the price of the coin to rise, before committing more capital to this (high) risk bucket. I’m also not a fan of ad-based business models, partly because I just don’t like ads and partly because they remind me too much of an internet we are trying to evolve away from - Google, Facebook etc.

More generally, the reason I invested in MaidSafe coin and MaidSafe the company was mainly because of the drive, talent and passion of the people (something you seem to have a lot of too!) but also because the problem they’re trying to solve is both clear to me and enormous: securing the world’s data. The problem you’re trying to solve, is less clear and less pressing, at least to me.

I hope this isn’t too discouraging and wish you the best. I’ll also be happy to revisit these thoughts once the SAFE Network has launched.

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Savings accounts will be death or pay to save money within 5 years.

With all the feedback that I got on this forum, I think I’ll try to sell the 100K within 10 months.

This absolutely doesn’t come across as negative, I see it as positive/honest feedback and a reality check. The thing is when people give me a reality check and give their 2 cents, I always respond to that as 50cents and do what they said I couldn’t do.

Yeah I totally agree with this, but I see a business as having fun :stuck_out_tongue:

This is a pyramid scheme, I’m trying to become the next Tut, jokes aside bitonic also has a referral program similar to mine. Voorwaarden referral-link - Bitonic sorry it’s in dutch.

We already got a bitcoin wallet with background ads now, so we don’t really depend on the SAFE Network, but this is the home of the wallet eventually.

Yeah I thought more about that today at work, if any data centers are here that want to farm safecoin and they look at internet speed, they’ll all move to the 10Gb internet connection area’s, those will be the silicon valley of the SAFE Network.

[quote=“Jabba, post:28, topic:12265”]
Sorry bro, but as it stands I wouldn’t be able to invest anything unless it can beat out MAID and you shouldn’t feel too bad about the fact that’s a pretty impossible challenge
[/quote] I’ll revisit this once I get going…

This isn’t discouraging at all sir, thanks for the feedback, I’ll drop this nuclear bomb on the open market.

I’ll keep the community posted how it goes, somehow I got the feeling that this can work, so I’ll work on it. I hope that other projects pop up soon, that might be more concrete to this community.

@whiteoutmashups my dev has the upload function done, he’s working on the bitcoin payment now, so that people pay before their ad is uploaded.

I’ve gone totally beserk this year, I try to on board 100K people, let’s see what happens. :kissing_heart:

@Krekc LOL some dumb numbers from here:
Advertising is a big growth industry. Global ad spending reached $542.55 billion in 2016, driven by bigger investments in digital advertising. In the U.S. alone, digital accounts for $60 billion, roughly 33 percent, of $183 billion in total ad spending. Despite the industry’s continued growth, digital advertising lacks many of the core building blocks that make an ecosystem secure, costing the industry billions of dollars a year.

I’ll be back!

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I am a very intermittent member of this forum and as such my feedback should be taken less seriously then the above posts. That said, I understand that my feedback is also very short and can more properly be characterized as an opinion.

I don’t like ads. I wouldn’t use a wallet that has ads.

I hope you great success though. I know what the grind is and admire efforts to get past it that also benefit others.

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I take your feedback as serious as those above, thanks for taking the time to at least give a berserker feedback :stuck_out_tongue:

This option should be for everyone, money doesn’t give privileges (Yeah tell that to the real world) :stuck_out_tongue:

I look at it in this way from an investors perspective: Ad spending reached $542 billion in 2016.
Now out of nothing comes a fintech startup offering to give users ad money, users that invest in this company’s pathetic 10K founder account sale would value this nobody company at 2.1M bitcoins. Last time I checked not even 1 SAFE Network project is at $1M, not that it’s about valuation, it’s about code and that we move SAFENET and our projects forward. More over if I sold these 10K founder account I would start asking € 1000 per founder account.

I mean, if people are so ad resistant maybe they should stop using the internet, because the current internet even on hardware level is being build by companies that serve ads. I thought that ROI was super important around here. I’m not saying use my wallet, I’m saying ROI can look real good for you if you invest in my company. Because people on this forum don’t see the value of this project I’ve decided to just take it to the open market. I never had problems with selling stuff. I understand that people in this community fear another mayor failed project that doesn’t deliver.

My goals for this year is:

  • Introduce 100k people or the equivalent amount in money to the SAFE Network.
  • Provide serious SAFE Network resources meaning: GB internet connections (if your datacenter has MB internet connections move, because farming needs to be optimum)
  • SAFE Network specific hackathon/conference

@whiteoutmashups
We finally got the background ads working even payments can be done, unfortunately it’s through Bitpay, but at least a working product to show people interested in a founder account.

Soon I’ll start a crowdsale for cryptoheads & ordinary people. Strategy with ordinary people is that this product is sold as an savings account with these pro’s.

  • Founder account now €123 later €1230
  • €20 per referral
  • NEVER a negative interest on this savings account
  • Your ad money has NO inflation
  • Don’t have to put money on this savings account (advertisers will do that) :kissing_heart:
  • Lifetime ad money

Ordinary people will just order and pay through their bank.

Cryptoheads can buy through bitcoin, but also every coin on Shapeshift.io (question is: how will I do the Shapeshift.io trick? I already got an idea :sunglasses:)

By the way, if investors only look at this wallet and see only background ads, then you really have no ideas of my ideas. What if you can see video/livestreaming and pay directly through this wallet: Food for Todd :kissing_heart:

Eddy, You have surprised me with this ad based business model.

One of the many problems with ads IMO is that they centralise power enabling it to influence/manipulate people. This is why we have surveillance capitalism and so many companies on the internet now have business models based on harvesting the activities of individuals in order to sell them (people farming). Use for advertising bring one major activity, but only the beginning, as we see insurance companies, medical organisations and no end of others lining up to use people’s private information without their consent or knowledge.

The alternative to this is consent to use, and alternative ways to generate rewards, and SAFEnetwork is in the vanguard of both.

One of the attractions of SAFEnetwork for me has been to address not just the privacy side of this equation (because that would be enough on its own) but also the rewards side, for businesses and app developers.

As such an avid supporter of SAFEnetwork I thought you got this too, so as I say, I’m really surprised to see this.

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I can understand that this comes as a surprise and goes against what we believe in on this forum. My main focus is to see the SAFE Network grow. Most people on the internet are already addicts to ads, we are a super minority club here. The thing is: if this year I can introduce 100K people to the SAFE Network, for me and my small team that’s already a big achievement. You don’t fight people their believes but simply introduce them to a better value system. If we don’t work towards bringing people to the SAFE Network at this very moment we’re wasting time. The biggest mistake that we can make around here is to keep staring at Maidsafe to deliver, why do that when you can talk to family & friends about the SAFE Network? Talking is not enough, we got to move people into this space. I’m doing it with something that they are use too and I hope to bring in large numbers. When people use the SAFE Network and don’t even know that they are using the SAFE Network we’ve accomplished our goal. Explaining this highly technical mumbo jumbo to people who eat dog food and watch cat video’s, it just not exiting. I rather have somebody watching that cat video on the SAFE Network without even knowing, instead of not knowing about the SAFE Network at all because we wanted to preach to them about privacy and alien technology.

I’m sorry if I disappoint many here, but I hope that the numbers that I bring in, will speak louder why I choose to do it this way.

Just a week ago, I got a faster internet connection and it was at that very moment that I was reminded that I’m not on the internet, unless I got a activation code from my ISP. I rather see us all just buying an opensource hardware box and be directly connected to SAFE Mesh Networks. We are all in direct competition with each other who can grow the SAFE Network the fastest, because at the end of the day that’s all that matters to have Secure Access For Everyone. Everything I’ll ever do will be SAFE Network related, but please understand why I do it this way. Time will tell, which of our approach made the network grow more. More over I’m absolutely NOT putting up a ad platform abusing users data. Your data is your data and not my company or whatever company should have that data, unless you decide to share that data. Consumer data doesn’t belong in the hands of companies, yet silently consumers are surrendering data without a clue.

When AI, know all about us and we remain on the clearnet, one have to ask what could possibly go wrong?

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