Planning a Maidsafe community exclusive Crowdsale:feedback needed

For now I’ll call the project “Pliwallet”, this is a wallet that will pay out advertising money to it’s users. You’ll only be able to get advertising money if you got a founders account. This is how the wallet looks like and it will have clickable background images serving as ads.

Right now there is a working version of the wallet with bitcoin as currency and manually adding the ads. Why I’m planning a Maidsafe community exclusive crowdsale? because the home of this wallet is the SAFE Network.

Rough sketch of the crowdsale, I’m planning to sell 10000 founders account for 0.1 btc each. The bigger picture here is that I will sell these accounts for 120 euro’s each. So if you invest you’ll do that right now at a price of 90 euro’s. People in this community are more familiar with investing, compare to the average people that I’ll approach with my company. There will be a total of 21M founders account.

I have a few reasons why I want to do a crowdsale and work on this wallet full-time:
Is a VC in the Netherlands with € 22 million in their coffer, yet they did not even want to invest € 100.000 in my company, maybe understandable because they knew nothing about blockchain.
This is a blockchain incubator, that knows everything about blockchain, they are even located in the city that I life. Surprisingly even they had no interest in supporting my project :confused:

So you mean to say me that a digital currency wallet, that keep users assets save and pays them advertising money has no future in the future that will be a sharing economy? :confused:

Reason3: My current job, just doesn’t seem to make any sense anymore, why I do it. My monthly salary is 1400 euro’s, fun part is that through my fintech startup I can sell 12 founder account and have 1440 euro’s monthly. :confused:

I have 5 devs right now and they can only work on the wallet off/on depending of how much money I can put on the side to get some features done. Through this crowdsale I want to raise enough money, so I can get my devs working on this full-time. They are also in their early stage, of a SAFE Network development mindset. I started this year with only the mindset to become the of the SAFE Network and get 100.000 people on the SAFE Network. I hate taking risk, unless thing are structured in a way that I have the guarantee that there is minimal risk.

How I minimize risk with my company is that we won’t pay out admoney, unless the first 100.000 founders account are sold. We are a startup, so we got to have a source of income. Right now I’m not actively selling founders account yet, but I can pitch this as a lifetime of advertising money. We’ll also have a referral program with € 20,00 for every new person founders bring on broad. We also don’t have a office, simply just to cut costs.

So what will it mean for you if you invest to get us working on this full-time?

  • Lifetime advertising money with founder account
  • Free access to our conference/hackathons (if we’re able to do this community crowdsale)
  • Referral-link € 20,00 per new account (if we’re able to do this community crowdsale)

What I’ve come to hate with crowdsales, is these spoiled people who get other people their money with a crowdsale and deliver nothing. What is for sure with this project:

  • The bitcoin wallet works, you can send and receive money.
  • The advertising works manually, so this is not a fully automated ad platform with auto pay out yet.
  • Even if we do sell 10K founder accounts, we’ll start pay out at 100K founder account sold (this is to ensure that our startup is guaranteed an income and incentivize founder account holders to keep promoting the wallet)
  • Devs are NOT SAFE Network mindset yet

Ask me anything, but if at the end of February this community doesn’t want to invest in this project then I will keep working at my current job and start selling my founder accounts locally. We should build apps and build our community.

If there are interested investors, you can see my team, company details and get a demo of the app. :stuck_out_tongue: Although I won’t take risk with is project.


My first questions would be the same as I’d ask with with any potential investment:

  • What’s the unique selling point - ie why would punters choose this particular wallet over any other (including free ones that will presumably emerge)?
  • What would people get for their 90 Euro / 120 Euros?
  • Since it’s an advertising model, why would advertisers want to advertise on this site?
  • What happens if you fail to attract advertisers in sufficent volume? Is there a secondary revenue stream?
  • Would accounts be transferable (ie sellable at a later stage)?

My second question is why is what’s the pork chop doing there? :slight_smile:

Anyway, I wish you luck!


To my knowledge it’s the first wallet in the world who wants to give users ad money, I know that being the first means nothing in this space because just from this post we’re probably having 10 copycats pop up. More important I never sit still with ideas, I constantly adjust them. There are 10 other features, but I’ll keep them secret for now.

  • Ad money
  • A SAFE Network app
  • The ability to see their investment grow buy at € 90 sell at € 120 (We will even sell it for you for FREE, because you supported us).

At the start there is not really a reason why you should advertise on this site, but when you think about it as a wallet, those are regularly visited. Ads on the homepage will have a higher price, but there will also be local ads, much cheaper and direct to the wallets users.

My focus is not on advertisers, users first. When you got enough users you get advertisers. Users come for the promise of ad money, the minimum of 100.000 founder account is more a milestone to show advertisers where we are at.

Yes up to the user.

Yeah I wonder, but it does look alien :stuck_out_tongue:



I think your idea has merit and I would support you simply because of who you are.
But… my 2 cents.
I think crowdsales for SAFE apps should only take place as and when it is certain and beyond any doubt that the app being funded will be built complete and functional as soon as the sale ends.
Too many stagnant projects only add to an already anxious community and my personal fear is that several months or more after being paid, the wait on functionality (that is expected or hoped for but not promised) causes a loss in steam and motivation for the devs and adversely affects everyone.
Only my opinion but I’m out of supporting new projects until I know it wont sit idle for an unknown period of time.


I totally agree with this, the thing is, with our app it will only have any meaning if we have MutableData. (hopefully march I’ll be able to demo an SAFE version of the wallet). The automated ad platform will take longer.

We have a functional wallet based on bitcoin and could do a crowdsale for bitcoiners, but my firm believe is that this wallet should run on the SAFE Network, before it can give it’s investors the guarantee that it will pay them out for as long as the SAFE Network exists.

Creating a SAFE Wallet as I have in mind won’t cost more than € 75K, the reason I ask so much is that I want to actively pitch the wallet to people door 2 door through direct sales. People interested will pay € 120, but they be able to pitch the wallet to others and receive € 20 every time they do so successfully. They can all see a live version of the wallet on my companies website, more important they’ll be able to follow if we reach the 100K users, which is the breaking point for this wallet. When the time is ripe these 90K users will get the bonus that they can install SAFE vaults at home, when we inform them about this tech.

The 10K founder accounts that I’m selling here, is to show the people in the outside world that there is interest in this wallet. If you repeat it enough to people that they will get ad money for the rest of their lives and show them a live version of the wallet, it might get them interested.

The stores in my neighborhood that actively pitch my wallet, will get free advertising on my website + € 20 per person that they bring on board. Your not investing in an app on the SAFE Network with this mini crowdsale idea, your giving me the time to quite with my current job, hire a marketing sales force and start actively creating a SAFE Network community. Your SAFE Network app will probably take 7 months, but it’s better to do something in the mean time instead of complaining about Maidsafe. If we don’t start doing stuff for this community, we might as well all join /r/bitcoin and have conversations about hodl or blocksize.

I’ve talked to enough people who said that they would be interested in receiving ad money, the idea behind this, is that I’m making all these people warm for SAFE Network/vaults. I started this year talking about 100K new community members and it’s only through our fully commitment and work with results that we’ll get there. I sit still (not really we’ll keep adding functions to the wallet) until the end of February after that I start actively selling my founder account with our without the help of community members.

If there are people who are interested in helping me sell the idea of a lifetime of ad money please join. :stuck_out_tongue:

If I sold 10K founder accounts I wouldn’t sit idle (I’ve been a door to door salesmen in the past) and nothing sells better than the idea of giving people Facebook or Google’s money. This SAFE Network thing is not something that’s decide by code only it’s also the people who are out there making it happen. I know that my obsession with the SAFE Network is not always good, but if anything I want to see this virus grow. :stuck_out_tongue:


I’m inclined to agree. Plus I don’t think you’d raise nearly as much now as if you wait until after the notional wealth of this community has already rocketed. :wink:

I like the idea and I know how committed you are, but I’d rather this were happening post testsafecoin at least. There are a lot of irons in the fire already. :confused:


btw you can see a mockup of the wallet here:
safe://pliwallet.eddy :stuck_out_tongue:

Seeing is believing, hook up MutableData, ready set go!

When you hover over the logo of the wallet, it shows a different image, this is to symbolize how the SAFE Network works. :kissing_heart:

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Umm yeah gotta say it’s not quite that simple. And if it is then there will be 999,999,999,999 other people doing it.

I’m in the process of trying to even get simple SAFE apps made and documented right now, and there are always many more steps in development than we imagine

I’m with the others in saying that it might be good for everyone involved (you and the community) if this was held for a long while until things are ready and you can make functional versions and see if you have a unique selling point

Lots of irons in the fire :fire: and SAFE has been progressing much more slowly than we all thought so my sense just tells me no.

Also @bochaco and the CEP process have the wallet covered and you could be efficient in just making a simple plugin for his wallet. Development budget could be $1k range or less to get this whole ad idea done.

More than enough disgruntled posts pop up on here already. Would hate to see more disappointed people constantly, that’s not what we need

Just my 2¢


21M founders accounts total, 10000 of which will be available during crowdsale? So looking to raise 1000 BTC in the crowdsale, and valuing your wallet app at 2.1M BTC??? :astonished:


A discount off something expensive is still expensive… this looks all about how to invest and not clear at all what buyers would be getting in return - and what of that is not easily duplicated. Cryptospace is full of quick-invest-here but unless there is a strong sense of utility or at least commitment from a large group to a particular product, then valuing the initial sale looks off at $916000 … let alone that is just the discounted amount and as drehb notes there then near 21M dilution. Money is not for free… and worse it’s hard to come by, as finance bites the world over.

Where there’s a mismatch of utility against investment required, that’s where you need a rethink… if it was easy, everyone would sell their idea.


I have a dev working on a SAFE wallet at the moment, the code will be opensourced and available for other devs from the get go. The problem that we have in this space is coding for the SAFE Network is far from easy and because it’s far from easy, I think we should constantly share code with each other. I’m not a coder but it makes no sense to have a small group only knowing how to do stuff, that’s stagnation.

If people kept their selves busy with creating apps or having apps made they would be less disappointed. Honestly I hardly got time to concentrate on what is not yet, maybe because I’m supercharged by what will be eventually. For these coming months I got a job to do… pitch lifetime ad money, really surprise them when we got SAFE vaults.

If I raised 1000 BTC during the crowdsale, it’s the SAFE Network community that would value the wallet app at 2.1M BTC. Keep in mind the price of 0.1btc per founder account is about € 90, the price that I’m asking to ordinary people is € 120.

In case people think this is a bad deal, here is your reality check, look at these numbers:

If anything, cryptocurrency wallets are the future, but how about one that pays out it’s users. I can pitch this to the bitcoin community and they’ll call it the killer app…

People get weird ideas of big numbers, like that is special, it’s only what you do with numbers to improve people’s lives and bring progress that’s important. 2.1M BTC is in the context of Facebook & Google an under estimation/joke, but I don’t care as long as all that money goes into the SAFE Network. If I would raise just 1000 BTC, the next step would be a DAO with all current community members owning a share. As long as this community grows and we create apps and have fun, that’s all that really matters. BTW it’s NOT my wallet app, it’s every SAFE Network community members wallet app who gives it value and gets value from it.

Looks like Facebook had like 12 million active users and $48M revenue when they hit $2B valuation (2006).

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0.1 btc for a lifetime ad revenue is expensive??? Yeah like creating software is for free

  • So a lifetime of ad revenue is not getting something in return
  • Being able to get € 20 per referral is not getting something in return
  • Buying these puppies at € 90 now and selling them later at a minimum of € 120 is not getting something…
    Really I’m puzzled

I would say that the SAFE Network community got the first mover advantage with this idea, a duplication is simply the demonstration that an idea works.

I’ll try to get 100K people to signup for my wallet, that’s the huge task that I put on my shoulder for this year. I’m finished talking (when I say that I start doing), BTW still feel free to ask. :stuck_out_tongue:

Maybe it would be more sensible to put the crowdsale of this project on the open market, before somebody duplicates it and try to run away with SAFE Network money. I think it could get me the money that I need to quite my current job and work on this wallet full-time. Chronobank got 3x of what i want to raise and all their delivering is labourhours. I’ll give it a night sleep

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Is that what all this is about, or is about a unique selling point?

Just want to make sure it’s about something real because I see all this as a very simple plugin that could be developed / reproduced very easily by anyone for under $1k. And our community is already stretched so thin. Timing really couldn’t be worse.

I could help you get the plugin done for very cheap and sidestep all this process, if it really is about the wallet idea

I think this is about different things, but the reason why I do it all is to see the SAFE Network grow.

The big picture here: what might be interesting for silicon valley is that the SAFE Network community gave birth to it’s first unicorn. A totally unknown company wants to give it’s founders a lifetime of ad money and it’s valued by it’s community at 2.1M bitcoins. Sweet jesus that’s even worth more than Ethereum’s marketcap!

For just 1000btc we can have our own super bowl ad on the internet. Nothing can help this community more than exposure, but if we all keep looking at Maidsafe/Maidsafecoin and don’t invest in ideas/apps, I think we’re missing the point.

What people probably think is: Oooh no now we can add eddyjohn to the list of apps that we’ll have to wait for. What they are missing is that I will be out there on the streets pitching this wallet, while my devs work on it. Do you think that Maidsafe’s vault development will still be a issue, if one of it’s startup is a unicorn? I think sell another bit of founder account to have my devs supporting the Maidsafe team code wise. If your afraid to invest, don’t expect you money to grow. If people disappoint you after you invested in them, they just disappointed themselves, because you’ll never invest in them again.

If you can’t wait 7 months for an app don’t. This idea can be sold everywhere.

One of my devs is working on the api of the bitcoin wallet that we got right now. Idea is that, people can upload an background image/ad and after that pay a price in bitcoins. But if he doesn’t figure out how to do it, I’ll message you. My other dev has gone total silent, because he’s studying the SAFE api right now and working on the wallet.

@19eddyjohn75 you answered the “unique selling point” part of this question, but not why people would choose this wallet over a free one.

It doesn’t make sense to me to pay to use a wallet and then having to watch advertisements every time I use it. Normally you pay so you don’t have to watch advertisements. Or will paying users get the option to turn off the advertisements?

Even so I expect there will be free-to-use wallets on the SAFE network and I don’t see why users would choose this one instead of a free one that doesn’t serve advertisements.

As for the amount of founders accounts you want to sell, 100.000 accounts for 0.1 BTC each = 10.000 BTC x $900 (current price range) = $9.000.000. Which is more than MaidSafe has raised so far to build the entire network. If I compare the project for SAFE and a wallet that runs on SAFE then this amount doens’t make sense.

For me right now it doesn’t make sense to invest 0.1 BTC in this pitch. I’d need to see more data to convince me this is a good investment. Like how much would you expect to make from advertisements each year, and what does this mean for the individual investor? How will the advertisement revenues be split? x% company / x% investors.


If I chose a wallet that displays adds it would be so that I get something in return, yes @19eddyjohn75 I agree.
But I should not pay a premium first.
You should figure our what it costs to build the app as @whiteoutmashups suggests and seek only that money from the community. Then have only advertising as your revenue stream (although I presume app rewards too)


Sure somebody can just offer this for free, but who pay their bills while they work on the code? Would devs devote their time to work on something that’s for FREE, while other devs are scoping up 100K per year for the same job? If people don’t understand that you need resources to do something, they can keep living in their fantasy world (I myself also life in a fantasy world, but that aside, let’s be real).

I’m thinking about using @seneca weboftrust and ad, also even if you use the wallet for free, users should be able to turn off ads. You pay for this app, because you want to see it developed faster/ further and get up in the face of Facebook and Google. This offer is not rocket science, it pretty simple.

I’m aiming to sell 10K accounts, which is $900.000

  • This is to create the app, which isn’t that much
  • Start a SAFE Pod actually to have devs on sight developing stuff, creating tutorials/making video’s (I’m thinking more like lifestreaming coding)
  • Hire a direct sales company and go in the field myself to promote the wallet and eventually inform all the people I on boarded about SAFE vault.
  • Open up a webshop/also on sight to sell Maidsafecoins only, people will really need Maidsafecoins, because if I can sell these 10K founder accounts it’s the only way that you’ll be able to buy an founder account.
  • Dev kids, I have schools in this area and would like to get kids installing/playing on the SAFE Network, so I’ll need reps for that
  • Hackathons/conference these bring in money

Ethereum raised $18 M, the DAO raised $150 M, what makes sense? To be honest I’m the one here who really doesn’t make sense, because why would I offer you something for $90 FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE. When even life insurance costs double that!

  • A valuation of 2.1M BTC
  • Ads revenue will come from the homepage and stores that advertise locally, all this money goes to the founders.
  • Application revenue will also go to the founders
  • When you buy a founder account you’ll also get the equal value in coins (but I’ll keep it a secret for now what the feature of the coin will be)
  • People can advertise in time or money, money goes up as more users join, time is priceless so good to have at the beginning of this project because your time can become worth much more as the money value to advertise goes up.

Company gets zilch, this money belongs to the people with a founder account

I got to good to work unfortunately:stuck_out_tongue: keep firing questions, but I can’t asnwer everything copycats

tldr I love this community, we’ve lost so much already, let’s get aggressive lets start building/doing and stop small talk. If we would be making apps out there promote SAFE we woulden’t have the time to blame Maidsafe or look at prices

You say you want to sell 10000 founder accounts.

You also say 100000.

And the ad revenue wont be shared until you hit 100000 sold which could not be reached for a very long time, if ever.

You state you need the ad revenue at first to help build / grow the project, while your selling the 100000 accounts at between 90 to 120 dollars.

I think you are asking to much of investors to start. Then keeping the ad revenue till 100000 acc are sold is a bit unfair IMHO.

Wishing you well.

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