Path of Least Resistance

Marketing
21

The strange thing is that the beauty of the network is clear for those who’ve delved in deep enough. The correct implementation of the economics of the network though (Dev reward, app reward, ptp, pay to put, free get etc.) is where perhaps the success of the project lies, but where logical and scientific thinking maybe has less value.

I think David and the team need to be given the freedom to iterate, try things out, fail sometimes too, until the magic of the core ideas are revealed in their best possible light.

6 Likes
22

Mainly 4 i disagree with. i agree with the way it is planned out now, which is pay for PUT’s , it creates economic value to farming, to the network, to usage, offers incentive to those joining , turning what is useless unused hard drive space into a valued trad-able commodity that can be part of a NSA-proof secure network in minutes

Free turns it into freenet and spend years reaching 150 TB of space usage reached , instead of 150tb in first 6 months growing exponentially if the incentive is right

23

In keeping with the promise… One possible solution could be to allow free PUT until X percentage of Safecoins has been minted. Then the SAFE Network starts charging (recycling) for PUTS.

Example

  • Farmers earn Safecoin on day 1.
  • Users don’t have to pay for PUTS until 50% of Safecoin (Unowned Pool) has been minted.

Would this make most people happy?

24

No because it would be completely pointless, why even have it at all? why not just have a faucet contributed by holders of the coin, so people wishing to upload content can upload content if they wish for free , but doesnt involve having to set up some weird % of coins need to finlly start charging , the network is going to be free to begin with anyway when its in testing phase and some of the data looks like it might be kept on the network during certain stages towards release

It’s creating extra added variables that are not needed at all , like jreighley has said before like a rube goldberg machine of creating a solution to a problem that doesn’t even exist except in the minds of a few

25

Please explain how the “faucet” works.

26

I would prefer a faucet that allows enough for limited PUTs until one’s vaults get going… This gives people a taste of the network, but it encourages them to continue contributing if they want to continue using it.

I think this analogy fits — When we are building a freeway we need to subsidize the infrastructure builders (Farmers) as they build the infrastructure - but there is no reason to subsidize or encourage traffic… If the freeway is useful, traffic will happen on it’s own.

1 Like
27

Is this like the Free NSL amount discussed in other threads?

28

you have a load of coins in a single address(app/faucet can be filled with donations) , people can click a “claim” button and they are given 1 safecoin into their account , it wouldn’t need to be on for too long, and manipulation by 3rd parties trying to profit off of it can be greatly reduced and doesn’t directly intervene with the core economics of the network

it’s called a faucet cos it drips coins basically.

29

So it’s a donation/charity pool where anyone can collect 1 Safecoin, right?

Would the SAFE Network pre-allocate an amount to this fund, including donations from owners currently holding Safecoin?

30

In bitcoin it is usually a wallet address on a virtual machine, and it is just set to drip small factions of coins to those who click the button. depending on how many coins are in the address

similar would be done with maid , you have an address/app that has a simple click button or address bar you fill in and get a coin, it literally doesn’t even need more than 10-20k worth of coins, if you think in the first few weeks more than 20,000 users are going to be storming onto the network then you can check daily to see if more donations would be needed but i doubt you gonna need that many , when it gives out 1 coin a click , 1 per account

wouldnt need to be written into the core code could be completely donation from holders currently driven , simple app ,i would donate 1000 coins into it if it was running now without much thought

would be a great little experiment, run a app that distributes coins and see how many coins it earns from being one of the first apps used by a large number of people obviously wont make you more than is in the pot but would be interesting to see some data and statistics

31

Something like that would work. The basic idea is that there is a way to get a taste, but no free ride to abuse the network. You could build it in, or use an external apparatus (faucet)…

It is important that there is something to set the “speed limit” on how much people can use – “Free” really needs to be “seems free” lest we fill the network with viagra ads. If Cryptocurrency had been around at the advent of email we could have avoided spam quite easily by sending a fraction of a cent with each mail… A retailer that did business with you would be willing to pay it, as it is much cheaper that the postal system. You and I wouldn’t notice because we both send and receive and it mostly would wash, but If you wanted to send 100,000 viagra ads to random strangers, it wouldn’t be worth the cost.

Really that is the kind of system we need. Pretty unnoticeable to the casual user, but a pretty big impediment to those who would cram the highway just because they can.

32

Okay, allow me to follow the process and let me know if it’s correct.

  1. I install the SAFE Network client (SAFE Launcher).
  2. Download (GET) the SAFE Faucet APP.
  3. Click the “claim” button to get my free Safecoin: daily, weekly, monthly… whatever.
  4. Pay the Safecoin to “Activate” my account, which grants me X Storage Amount.
  5. Then upload my data.

Is that about right?

Continued…

  1. Other users can donate their Safecoin, using the APP, paying it forward once their vault farming gets underway. This would refill the charity pool for other newcomers. This does put a limit on the abuse, but doesn’t really prevent it.

I think the Free NSL would be much easier. It works like this.

  1. Install the SAFE Client.
  2. Create your account, get X storage for free, depending on the Network Average Availability.
  3. Upload your data.

Then if you decide,
4. Start a vault.
5. Earn Safecoin overtime, and buy more storage.

The big argument against Free NSL is bot account creation, which is why we decided against it.

Since then, I’m wondering if abuse is really a benefit. We want people to fill up the Network. If it becomes too full the NSL goes to zero anyway. Just like your faucet idea, there is a limit. However, if we have a mass influx of farmers, then everyone gets more free storage.

PS: If Safecoin has the potential to become more valuable, I would be reluctant to donate it. But that’s just me.

2 Likes
33

I’m a SAFE fan and think it will ultimately be more successful, but I found Bitshares approach to new users to be the most thought out. I think a very similar one for the SAFE network would work even better.
http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/BitShares/Howto

34

Yeah that would be the gist of it, But this is still just a solution to an imaginary problem

what option are you arguing for currently thou? is it an option 5 but with a twist?

Abuse i would say would be spamming account creation, filling the network with pictures of cats , Making the cost to put data onto the network more for those using it as the original economic model intended. preventing others from getting free space to use, when the average fills up, guessing if someone created 5000 accounts , their free data would still exist and not in real time in their account adapt to the changes on the network. that might be wrong thou

What i still don’t understand is, What is the actual problem you are trying to solve? cos at the moment there isn’t one , there has been talks of free data and test safecoins, with the possibility of moving the data over to the live network, so people’s put data costing them nothing to begin with already .

35

I’m questioning the path of least resistance.

Does the SAFE Network provide a path of least resistance/better user experience compared to other services available today? Bittorrent, TOR, Freenet, Youtube, Ebay, Facebook, etc…?

I never said it was a problem. I think the SAFE Network will do fine either way, a niche market at the very least.

Currently, I’m not that driven as a consumer to use the SAFE Network. Apologies if this statement upsets supporters. Just being honest. Regardless of how I feel as a consumer, I am vested in this project and support the vision wholeheartedly.

1 Like
36

The problem with giving it away for free is when it is otherwise charged , it is a noble idea but never attracts those that actually offer any benefit in any real way.

Haha not trying to sound like some fancy american screaming to everyone else “get back to your own internet”

But it isn’t likely going to draw that many content creators, the ability for people to try the network free of charge? yeah definately but what is that going to lead to?

Either they get bored and just go “meh its like other networks” , or they get drawn into the economical incentive that is built into it. “hell yeah i wanna get paid”

most of your examples allow free data storage effectively, you give up your privacy but are those you are trying to entice into the network going to care or see the difference ? is that going to draw them over more than the profit

so the path of least resistance to the discoverer of the network, the consumer , direct financial incentive, it will most often than not lead back to the financial incentive , so either begin and end with it all in one, or have more steps than that and also end with it.

The network isn’t even launch , the consumer isn’t that driven currently unless you imagine the possible future potential of the project and are most likely a member of this forum or keep regularly updated, there is also zero content on the network .

The financial incentive will draw the consumer in, the ability to store some data for free which can be achieved in many other places wont really do that as well.

are you really telling me that the ability to freely use the network a little will alleviate that lack of drive you have?

nothing really in that scenario changes except you can try it first, if that changes your whole outlook on the project and promotes a strong unheard of drive for the project then please can you explain how?

Edit: i do think the idea would of worked perhaps when in may of last year , the intention wasn’t to have it tied to the network as it looks like in the discussions, not having safecoin tied to anything. but having it tied to an incentive, an incentive to use the network requiring you to give resources to the network to receive resources. thus strengthening the network , is far more secure and better at promoting the network than offering freebies to people and them using it like bittorrent, make an account, store a file remember the name, log out.

37

This looks great on the surface, but really is a confidence gamble.

If you could make the coin “better than life” (reddwarf) then it might succeed but I expect it would be like Rimmer (reddwarf). Could you?

Nothing is there to kickstart that and after all there are plenty of other system that tried it all before and BTC is still the only really used confidence coin. There was a whole thread on this and very little confidence that it would work (except for its champion who was convinced it would work).

No intrinsic value trying to overtake the established player.

I would assert that this will occur very soon after the hoarders have begun to get tired hoarding the coin. Once that happens there is nothing to raise the price from nothing. So it starts at 2 cents a coin while being hoarded and only drops from there (slowly for a while then collapses when hoarders/traders are done with it).

Its the resources that it can buy that gives it intrinsic value.

1 Like
38

I’ve added option #7 to the OP, as per suggestions in the thread. I’m calling it Free NSL (Network Storage Limit) because we have an entire thread that goes into detail already.

39

Unsure what you mean. Free to store xMB of file then pay for rest of file?

OR free for the account’s 1st XMB of storage (ever stored) then pay forever after that to store?

1 Like
40

Yes, this one…