Parallel "SAFE" network to run on the clear net

I was just thinking. Once the SAFE net is up and running could a parallel SAFE net be developed to run on the clear net. It would be clearly understood it would not be anonymous or secure. But what I’m thinking is you could set up an app or DAO to crowdfund clear net storage in a similar manner to the SAFE net and perhaps include some of the deduplication tech. Or set up the clearnet site to reference files on the SAFE net like videos and apps the same way other clearnet sites today embed youtube videos and flash applications. So instead of sending you to youtube they’d open up SAFE net app and play the video off the SAFE network for you, thus freeing up resources for the clear net site.

A website cost fiat because it costs so many computer resources to host servers and what not. So similar to the SAFE network the DAO could charge users in safecoin based on the percentage of the server resources they used times the current price for those resource in safecoin. So if you’re using 1% of the servers total usage that translates into a dollar amount which is then charged to the user in safecoin.

You might even be able to write the program to act as a proxie uploading agent so people could log in with their SAFE account, upload files to the app from the safenetwork then the app posts the files to the clear net for the user so that their anonymity is at least partially protected. Granted anything connecting to the clear net is not secure. The app could be hacked. The files that are being uploaded could be hacked. But from the clearnet’s perspective they couldn’t tell who posted what because all the app knows is they received a certain list of files and safecoin from some anonynmous users on the SAFE network. And that’s if the app connects the data to the list of users authorized to upload.

You could have two separate apps working in tandem. One keeps track of the users and their finances and stays completely on the SAFE network. Then when they upload their data that data is then downloaded off the SAFE network, encrypted, and sent to the “production line” app as a set list of files to be published. The publishing app never sees who these files belong to. It just gets instructions on where and what to publish. Build site to these specification, uploading these files, in emply slot A, B, or C. If the website happens to have “David Irvine” or “Happybeing” or “Blindsite” on the side the publishing app can’t tell, nor can it confirm or deny the files actually came from any particular user, as it’s just doing a paint by the numbers routine. If the data gets deleted or censored on the clear net it still exists on the SAFE network and can be reuploaded. If the site gets taken down by the feds it can quickly be reinitialized at a new domain.

So what do you think? Is it feasible or am I totally nuts? I wasn’t exactly sure where to put this as it’s a bit more than an app.

You can also host data on SAFE Network and route them to clearnet domains

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That would be even better assuming of course you could get the proxie to work with other browsers. Which is why I’m kind of opposed to using a specialized browser just for SAFE.

People choose the path of least resistance.
If you give anyone the choice of not leaving what they currently have, they will exactly do that.

In the case of the SafeNetwork, having an alternative solution to keep it connected to the clearnet will mean that the common internet users will not have an incentive to actually join the SafeNetwork, reducing the usage of the SafeNetwork to developers and webmasters.

And it also can be a PR liability, if one of the users gets hacked, even though the SafeNetwork is sound and unaffected, what do you think the clueless mass media will report? “SafeNetwork has been breached” or whatever bullshit.

My opinion is that SafeNetwork never gets connected to the clearnet.


Okay let’s put this another way folks. If I can dream it up someone is going to do it. So who would you prefer does it? An unscrupulous corporation or someone that actually cares about privacy, security and freedom?

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That’s the beauty of permissionless systems…anybody can use them however they see fit. I think it is pretty likely that SAFE will be used for some back-end clearnet website storage as you describe.

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Awesome ideas on using clearnet

Ads, theft of attention, enclosure, capture of media, loss of rights eventually hereditary rule. Why not call it rape net. Like deciding to wear a cadaver.

Well if you have a safenetwork client working side by side with the clearnet to “render” the content coming from the SafeNetwork, maybe.
But if they end up creating a proxy abomination, or a gateway, we are moving hundreds steps back. You are turning the SafeNetwork into IPFS.

If you only need a distributed backend serving the clearnet, just use IPFS, instead of butchering the SafeNetwork.

The only entities pushing for a SafeNetwork exit nodes would be the NSA and all those professional peeping toms.

Not sure if I got the idea, but I’ll personally use SafeNet as a cheap CDN for many of my websites (html / images / media content). For the client perspective it won’t change anything, but for me it’s all about costs - it will save me LOTS of money.

I can either use the safe-vfs on my servers or create some kind of web-based gateway between the two networks, I still need to decide which one will be technically and economically better.


This is a great use case that makes a lot of sense, but highlights a potential danger of not charging for bandwidth provision / gets. Farmers won’t want to provide unlimited bandwidth for free, and if bandwidth isn’t charged for in some way the price of puts required to offset these costs could make Safe uncompetitive for everyday uses.

Hopefully a method can be achieved that enables free gets up to a point (determined by network capacity), but with throttling or charging coming into play for the most get-intensive accounts first when the network starts to get strained.


Good point. And I’m saying this and I love the SAFE concept - I’m not so idealistic as many here, but I love the SAFE concept. Most developers won’t care about the network health as much as I. But I trust in David’s ability to change the network economical model if this starts to be a problem.


Absolutely - it should be relatively easy to solve using similar methods to how storage will be rationed.

I’m sure David & others at MaidSafe have a number of possible solutions if bandwidth demands on farmers become a problem, and I hope these will be implementated and tested before the network goes live so they can be switched in if needed.


Yes you do…

And this allows orgs to maintain their global (clearnet) rankings. Which in-turn allows them to pay the bills. Which in-turn allows them to further the Safenet, CDN is big biz and many will embrace Safenet exactly as you are.