Other Coins - Price & Trading topic

I’ve not read to much, but the 21mill premine is not supposed to be spent, but used to get businesses onboard in such a way that it doesn’t affect farmers.

If this is how it’s managed only time will tell.

Hi, @Dimitar , did you find running storj worthwhile?
I’ve a system running 24/7 , couldn’t hurt to add a hdd and setup storj.
Trying to roi on some storage before we go live.

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Look at this analysis:

running hardware dedicated only for storj isn’t easy…

mainly because you run into the issue of disk capacity… if you use a 6tb hdd it will take a year to fill… so the ROI really starts when you are a year in, if you have a smooth ride.

with a 12TB it might at what we have been seeing for the last long while… would then take 2 years to fill… so really thats the main issue.

also that the internet, and the hardware prices, the monitoring and troubleshooting when stuff goes wrong.

but if you can keep the nodes alive, and don’t waste to much hardware or time in running storj, then it can be profitable… but i think the main key to profit from storj is to use systems that have primary purposes, and then run storj as a secondary bonus.

since it doesn’t really take a ton of resources.

if we do that math on this example
DC CZ there are 2 nodes on Dell R210 29€ month and imagining 12tb hdd for each

so a max monthly earnings of 24x3$ lets just underestimate.
so 72$ after 2 years of operation… which which the 1st year they will be operating at a loss.
and tho i’m sure they could perform okay during the first year, i doubt it … so underestimating… by calling it … well it will be lucky to cover 2 months operational costs… so ill just call it zero.

so first year 0 profit and expenses is like 600-720€
then 2nd year they will start to cover their operational costs.
as it being about half the max earnings…and at end of year should earn 72$.
so thats an avg of like 20$ each month, so for the full 2nd year would be 12x20 so
240$…

so two years in and capacity just filled and we are still 400€ in the red.
so unless we add more capacity the 3rd year will pass and we will still be in the red…
but not by much… the only way to offset that would be to store past 12TB for each node.

if we calculate both options… 12tb pr node max and going to 18tb on year 3
that would put us starting out at the max which is 72$ pr month and so lets call that 40$ profits pr month, so a yearly profit of 480$ and having paid 240$ last year of the 600€
which basically equals out with the costs of year one… so during year end of year 3 i would expect a setup such as that to make profits…

for the dual 18 / infinite capacity… so adding 2x6TB for both nodes x 3$ pr TB making it
36$ extra earnings pr month,

and using 50% of end of year earnings as the avg, again assuming a linear progression of ingress.

ergo 18$ avg earned extra pr month over the year. so 210$ or whatever

so that would basically be the earnings after 3 years of operation… a couple of hundred $

15$ overhead pr node is a killer for your ROI

sorry if this is kinda bleak, but just trying to work with semi realistic numbers.
the earnings have also been under estimated, so might be a lot better…
but this i would say one has a pretty good chance of earning.
even with that much overhead.


Privacy. Security. Freedom

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Don’t worry about a bleak outlook, I wanted the truth not sugar coating, thanks.

I’m running chia node with same intent, so node needs to stay up anyway, and with multiple hdd on chia, I see little extra cost involved other than the hdd’s.

I’ll probably throw 1 drive at it and see how it goes.

Thanks

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$dero is exploding right now, when everything else is dumping. It seems anonymous smart contracts and anonymous transactions based on homomorphic encryption are a new beast in a town. Looking forward what will MaidSafe price do, once anonymous everything will be released.

Maybe we could learn something from Dero’s smart contracts solution. Anonymous smartcontracts are a huge market, since public smart contracts can’t be used for anything where privacy should be preserved. This could be like 99% of usecases, that can’t run on public smart contracts.

EDIT: more about DERO: DERO: The Formula 1 Privacy Coin is Just Starting its Engines | by BenjamTD | The Birb Nest | Medium

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I am adding an explanational article, that explains private smart contracts, why are they not trivial and why it is a big deal. (Why) Bringing Privacy to Smart Contracts is Non-trivial

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DERO just pumped 700% today on tradeogre and 250% on Kucoin:) Shame I did not buy more:(

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Seems the issues described there are mostly blockchain specific. Should be easier with SAFE and DBCs.

There are still cases where we would want all inputs to be private though. Depending on the use case there’s fully homomorphic encryption, functional encryption and secure multi-party computation that can be used by themselves or in combination.

Here’s a blog post describing some basics of these methods.

https://www.esat.kuleuven.be/cosic/blog/the-three-musketeers-of-secure-computation-mpc-fhe-and-fe/

If we can assume groups of elders are not colluding, we can get interesting new ways these can be used on SAFE. Should be a fruitful avenue of research once we get compute support and to some extent even before then.

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True. As I understand it non anynonymous blockchain crypto currently has no 100% working solution. Dero is by default anonymous, it uses homomorphic encryption on transactions. So they claim their smart contract solution is private thanks to ability to hide input/output parties. I think this should be possible to be done with DBCs. But I don’t know. Of course the question is, what about other parameters that are not transactions? If transactions are private and smart contracts are only about transactions, than computation is likely private. But what if we need more than transactions only as an input/output?

Nice article. Yes, there is a broad spectrum of applications. Each needs different level of privacy. Some don’t need any. Some need to hide transactions only. Some need to hide all inputs. And some need to hide even the fact, that a computation occured:)

Private smart contracts are a big deal. We have DBCs, we can add plugins, with support of varius scripting languages. We can make results of computation private or public.

We can assume they do not collide by doing attacks, etc. But there is not any mechanism that punishes them for publishing everything they know about the computation. So we can’t expect any privacy there, we can just hope for it. We should expect that what they compute everyone could see.

As there’s no transaction history it should be possible to hide inputs to a DBC by masking each input with an upstream transaction.

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There’s really two types of inputs. One is the inputs to a DBC, the other is inputs to a function/smart contract that runs on nodes. A function could for example be a function that takes two input values and returns true/false and if it returns true something happens to a DBC or whatever.

There are cases where you don’t want nodes to be able to see the inputs to the function, only the output and there are also cases where you don’t want nodes to see either the input or the output, but instead want the output returned to one or more clients who have decryption keys and will decrypt the output and decide what to do with it.

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Yeah this does bring certain limitations. If the elders can steal information from some computation that’s split between all of them in cases where they communicate with each other so all of them know each part, then we can’t really know if they’re using this information for something or even that they got this information. Such cases should probably run on each client involved insetad.

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Is Elder collaboration really an issue? Because if is an issue here isn’t this a more general problem?

I think it remains to be seen, but it may not be an issue for a lot of cases.

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They can simply publish their computation results for profit. And there is not a mechanism to find out and punish them. So why not to do that if they can earn on it?

Yep, good point, for cases where the result can be used like that. I’m not sure how many uses that would be an issue for still, but probably true for some.

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Probably not a big issue, but I was thinking specifically of cases such as you some secret S, divided into, say, four parts A,B,C,D, where four elders each had one part and where knowing all parts of the secret could divulge something like some secret trade information. If this was the case, a bunch of elder could share such information in a chat group with no repercussions.

There’s also the case of functional encryption. Functional encryption could probably be quite useful for smart contracts in that you have encrypted inputs to a function, but the output is decrypted, such that some DBC transfer could be done if some condition was true, but the input data wouldn’t be seen by the nodes. There’s also varieties where the function itself is encrypted, so the nodes would just run some smart contract/function and know that it returns true or false, but wouldn’t know the input or what the actual function. This could be used to create completely secret anonymous smart contracts, the nodes executing the smart contract would see neither inputs, nor what the smart contract did, all they’d know is if it returns true or false, whether to transfer some DBC or not.

The potential issue with functional encryption is that the way it would work is that a group of nodes (elders) each would have a part of a master private key (their BLS key perhaps, if that works). Then what you do is you have the group derive a new private(decryption) key specific to the function you want to calculate and this private key would be shared among the nodes and can only be used to decrypt the output of the function. If, however, the nodes found a way to communicate out of band, they could share with each other the parts of the master private key and use that to decrypt the input.

A solution to this would be if instead of only creating a private (decryption) key corresponding to each function that is to be evaluation, it would also generate a public (encryption) key corresponding to each function. In this case each user would encrypt their data with a public key meant only encryption data for one specific function and where the encrypted data could only be decrypted through that specific function. Probably overly paranoid for most use cases, but might be a nice addition. If the BLS key could be used for this though, it might not be neccesary to have a public key for each function since decrypting the data would require each elder to share their parts of their BLS private key with each other and unless all elders was owned by a single entity, this would mean that no elder would want to share their share of the private key with the others as the other elders could use that to screw them over.

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My spider sense thinks BTC will see see another 50% dump from today. Posting this here to keep myself honest about what I was thinking when it goes up 50% and fomo starts to creep in…

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Bitcoin at $32,800 sitting up in bed now and on its second bowl of chicken soup.
Doctors still keeping a close eye on it though.

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The patient showed a slight improvement today. Doctors are said to be cautiously optimistic.

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Who was it on here was punting Haven, XHV?

The idea may be great but the performance is crap. Thankfully I only bought ~$50 worth.