Other Coins - Price & Trading topic


#185

Is this what category they are throwing MaidSafe in with then :stuck_out_tongue: ? I think they will be in for a rude awakening when network launches and apps start taking off and MaidSafe makes all the hard working devs and early supporters MaidWealthy :smile: . I can see all the decentralized gifs and memes now :star_struck: !


#186

Monero $18k would be big.


#187

I think we would come under currency and privacy category.


#188

Who are Satis Group (active on Twitter since Jan 18) and why is a report “intended for disribution only to qualified institutional or professional clients” freely available on the web? Massive pinch of salt aside some of this makes a broad sort of sense, particularly the increasing importance of privacy coins as they do something that’s not possible with existing systems, and the decline of copycats. I personally doubt bitcoin will be worth multiples of its current value in 10 years time though. I believe wasteful, inefficient PoW spells its doom.


#189

Not sure, the authors did some work for Argon Group prior but I don’t know anything of either. I posted only because as you say makes broad sense and seemingly took some man hours to produce.
Pinch of salt… always!


#190

New USDT pairs on Poloniex: 0x, Lisk, Dogecoin, Golem and Siacoin.


#191

Nice to see the market making a turn around. Very interested to see BAT’s progression. I’ve been using the Brave broswer on my phone for a while and just downloaded the windows version. Going to be interesting to see how you can earn BAT and if it works as well as they hope.

Decred has had a 30% rise today because it’s been added to Binance. Looking forward to the day Maidsafe coin is on there.


MaidSafeCoin (MAID) - Price & Trading topic
#192

Btw guys. If you haven’t looked into UK tax rules when trading one crypto to another, be wary that each time you dispose of an asset you will probably have to pay some tax on that.

I’m just going through last years mess - it is a pain and could get expensive.


#193

Do you have a link to the rules?


#194

There is a thread on reddit that has some accountants in it and some info / links in there:


#195

Same as trading between any assets. It is why holding is often tax beneficial and spread better is better for trading price changes.

Also be aware that trading frequently can result in it being income taxable instead of just subject to capital gains taxes.

I suspect many will get a rather frightening surprise when HMRC catches on.


#196

So… possibly no tax to pay on maidsafe gains…

$0.20 to $20,000 is it highly speculative?

From the following…

HMRC recently updated their CGT manual in December 2017 regarding Cryptocurrencies and gives guidance to their inspectors, but as always with HMRC it’s open to interpretation.

Their paragraph regarding highly speculative gains reads as follows:

Depending on the facts, a transaction may be so highly speculative that it is not taxable or any losses relievable. For example, gambling or betting wins are not normally taxable and gambling losses cannot normally be offset against other taxable profits (CG12602).

HMRC do not give a great deal of information regarding what ‘facts’ would lead to a speculation based purchase and from previous experience, one may expect HMRC to argue that losses were highly speculative and not allowable for any relief, whereas any gains are a taxable profit. Case law will likely be needed for us to definitely say what is treated as highly speculative gains


#197

Yeah, the trouble is there is no clear guidelines to what is classed as highly speculative. There is one person I’ve read on reddit that is going down this route with an accountant. It is clearly a bit risky, but if you can get an accountant to agree and they offer insurance, then it’s probably a good bet.

The hard part is finding an accountant that will go down the gambling route.


#198

Ha! I wouldn’t be pinning my hopes on that gamble - it is ultra highly speculative that they would yield! Personally, I wouldn’t want to be flirting with jail time for tax evasion… It isn’t worth it.


#199

That’s what I’m thinking too, but if you do find an accounting company that is happy to go down that angle and offer insurance, it would be hard not too take it.


#200

This is the post from the guy that went down the gambling route:


#201

HMRC won’t that one go by, IMO. IIRC, they can chase you years after the fact:

“If they suspect that errors have crept in innocently, they can go back four years , and claim unpaid tax with interest plus penalties. If they think you have been careless with your returns, they can go back six years . But if they believe you have been deliberately false, they can go back 20 years .”


#202

True, but if you have sent in all your trade history, with a report from an accountant, and the accountant firm have insured you, you have taken the advice from the accountant company. Apparently HMRC usually challenges any tax returns they believe to be wrong within 12 months, so if you do everything this way and don’t hear from them after 12 months there is a good chance you are in the clear.

If you haven’t put any tax returns in, that is different to putting them in and having a difference of opinion. The guy in that reddit post put his in last July and hasn’t heard anything yet, which is strange.

It’s definitely risky, but is interesting some accountants are taking that angle. If they are wrong the likely scenario is he just has to pay the tax he owes plus some interest.

It be nice to see one of these claims go to court and see where that ends. If they win there could be a lot of tax HMRC would have to pay back.

The other argument is that Bitcoin, etc are so risky that they could go to zero, and if that happened so many people would be claiming losses that it would cost HMRC a fortune. In that case HMRC would definitely love to claim the gambling angle, but they obviously can’t have it both ways.

At the moment there are a lot of grey areas.


#203

I find it hard to believe that they couldn’t provide evidence. They will know roughly how much they bought the first coin for and how much more they sold them for. If he spent 10k and made 490k, there is about 20%/100k due in capital gains tax.

I suspect HMRC would take a rather dim view of people claiming otherwise, tbh.


#204

It wouldn’t cost HMRC. You can offset loses against your future gains, but they won’t pay for your loses.

Moreover, gains from gambling is still subject to to taxation. Professional gamblers, traders, etc, have to declare and pay tax on their income too.

I just find it very niave that people are prepared to try it on with HMRC like this. They are playing with fire - fines and jail time, specifically.

Edit: I am not an accountant, so don’t take any of this as advice. I just don’t think that HMRC will be a soft touch; they are notorious for going after people, even if it looks likely they will lose.