OPEN LETTER TO THE SAFE NETWORK. . . topic deleted

I wouldnt need to be over it had you not deleted it. You guys dont believe in free speech or in protecting the community at large. Thank you for your moderation. Oh and it didn’t take long to figure out who he was talking about…disgusting behavior guys, you should be ashamed of yourselves.

I had wanted to reply to him it’s not, but I didn’t want to add to this already pointless discussion. However now that you said he’s right, I want to comment that I think he’s not.

You can’t have a valid opinion on what someone should or shouldn’t post. You can have an opinion about whether you should post. What you think other people should do doesn’t matter just as someone’s thinking mods shouldn’t remove other people’s posts doesn’t oblige the mods to follow that.

The commenter’s opinion on this matter matters only because he’s a mod (owner or his representative for moderation work) and otherwise could be easily ignored by all.

An opinion is inherently self validating. It’s a subjective expression not constrained by interpreted acceptability. Whether it matters is another story.

1 Like

Are you the Jason King of Sean’s outpost?

An opinion is inherently self validating. It’s a subjective expression not constrained by interpreted acceptability. Whether it matters is another story.

Yes, it is valid for himself, that was what I wanted to say. But we are not discussing whether he should post personal stuff, but whether anyone could.
It’s like if someone said he doesn’t like bold markup, others shouldn’t use it.

It’s not really important, but it annoys me because it obfuscates the real nature of the takedown - it has nothing to do with reason, and all to do with the majority opinion of the forum owners (or mods as their reps).

2 Likes

Agreed. See https://angel.co/infinity-algorithms.

According to that post at least, this Jason King is founder of infinity algorithms(he claimed he went bankrupt) – but, according to this post: Infinity Algorithms and Factom Announce Collaboration someone else is CEO. In any case, it seems there are ties to names on this forum and also projects (not sure what Safex is official part of the Maidsafe product, but the name is also there…etc) so IMO it is important to stamp out these rumors/misinformation.

The problem with sweeping it under the rug is it comes back 10x stronger. The only way to stamp out a rumor for good is to air it out with indisputable facts. I’ve been around crypto a very long time (and the Jason King name rings a bell from previous controversies…that is if he is the same person) but am new to the forum, so apologies if I’m missing context…but there are a lot of scams in the crypto world, so I think it’s important to be cautious and fight back allegations especially ties to shady characters – because in the sea of scams there are good people. It’s your right to fight back if you own the truth.

1 Like

Mods, as a new user I can tell you this thread (which is about a deleted thread) is a major put off. Why on earth would you want to pin an ALL CAPS FORUM TOPIC which is a bunch of waffle? I clicked on it because I thought it might be important (since it was pinned).

4 Likes

It will be unpinned very soon. It was meant for regulars who may have seen the original post.

And even that is confusing. Click on the activity tab and you see comments by the other founder before Jason became founder.

How those dates are reconciled is for the 2 parties to deal with and personally I do not wish to hold any opinions. Because any “facts” we are given will have 100’s of other (perhaps messy) facts behind them that only the two parties can reconcile.[quote=“sharklazer, post:64, topic:7334”]
The problem with sweeping it under the rug is it comes back 10x stronger. T
[/quote]

Ummm it is not our dispute, so really we are not sweeping anything to do with this forum or SAFE under the rug. Infinity-Algorithms has nothing to do with SAFE or MAID or the forum

Rather we have closed and delisted a post that could see police/legal action and we do not wish to have the forum listed as an accessory.

It is a dispute posted (by one of two parties) in our forum and it is not associated with us. Why would we keep it here? They are members of the forum and hold no position in the forum or in MAID, its like I bring a dispute between me and another member that has nothing to do with the forum or SAFE and try to have a kangaroo court of public opinion. But to make matters worse there was a “pay up or else” style of wording that is a legal issue we need to not be an accessory by hosting it.

5 Likes

Ummm it is not our dispute, so really we are not sweeping anything to do with this forum or SAFE under the rug. Infinity-Algorithms has nothing to do with SAFE or MAID or the forum

Ok that’s great to know, apologies. Because from those two links I posted it seemed like Infinity Algorithms has a lot of ties with Maidsafe, especially Safex/Safex protocol integration. Glad that’s cleared up.

3 Likes

Just to clarify for you. safex is not a protocol that is going into SAFE/MAID, but an application with its own “protocol” and is separate to MAID/SAFE.

Rather like a web site uses the internet/web. safex uses SAFE for its operation, but is completely separate to it.

2 Likes

No it’s not, but unless there are others waiting in the wings Safex is earmarked to be the first exchange to offer SAFEcoin in exchange for other coins and possibly fiat.

So it’s a possibility that this type of innuendo is an early shot across the bow of SAFE credibility, close to launch. The crypto press were very quick to sink the boots in, as a result of a less than sub-optimal crowdsale…so we could be confident they’d jump in if something juicy came up.

4 Likes

Finally. It took us almost 60 comments to get to the point.

It’s simply how this particular forum works (this forum’s moderation policy) and this has nothing to do with reason or objective truth.

4 Likes

So now we don´t believe in free speech, or in protecting the community next to your big list of earlier complaints. While if it was up to you, we would all sit back and see that fight unfold…

I don’t really understand how that would be “protective” (your word) to a community. And when I take a view at the deleted topic again I see you made several replies to it. In one of them you actually talk about it as being “entertaining”.

So to be honest with you, I really doubt if you are criticizing moderation for the reasons you said. It seems you don’t like the fact we took away a potential fight for you to sit back and enjoy as entertainment. Just wondering though. Let me know if I’m wrong.

2 Likes

Have you seen the quote from that topic where most of the discussion is about?

I will slowly release information, unless I am made whole by you know who…

It took me under a second to find out about which 2 parties this conversation was. Not in detail, but I have quite the picture. And I have no clue who’s right or wrong. But what I do know is that it wasn’t in line with the FG because:

  • The post contains what could reasonably be interpreted as an effort to extort or blackmail (that’s a personal attack).

  • Wasn’t improving any discussion because it could stir up a whole flame war between 2 parties where A says something and then B replies to it.

So some mods reached consensus, unlisted the topic and wrote a piece pinnend on the frontpage to explain what they did. This is because the topic was already active and otherwise people would ask what happened to it. When I first saw that topic all was sorted out already. Several mods agreed on the decision and there was a long discussion about it in both the mods channel on Slack and here on the forum in PM’s. I took me about 15 minutes to read these discussions and topics and I absolutely agree with the choices made. It’s all based on what’s in the FG and these guidelines are for everyone.

It wouldn’t be fair to let that topic open because then you have “Party A” telling it’s side of the story while we don’t allow “Party B” to respond due to the fact that it’s a personal/legal issue between te 2 parties. And next to that the post wasn’t in line with the FG.

1 Like

Lol. Your trying super hard now… calm down before you pull a muscle bro,

1 Like

Everything that needs to be said has been said so I’ll wrap it up from my side:

Yeah, which “could” be interpreted. Did the person (as in “personal attack”) interpret it that way? As far as we can tell, no. So you killed the post preemptively which is really nice (for that person and for the owners of this site) because you don’t have to deal with that later and you also did a favor to whoever from MaidSafe was targeted, which increases the chances of this site being the forum favored by the MaidSafe (Foundation). Makes sense. The owners made a (business) decision, which is how it should be.

Attempts to rationalize your actions from other perspectives have failed.

I’ve always said (discussions initiated by Al Kafir in the meta category) what matters is property rights. The mods exercise them and there’s nothing one can complain about that, in my view, but you (the mods) screwed up by trying to wrap your (legitimate) self-interest in various wishy-washy rationalizations and that was a failure.

What’s wrong with saying “the post was deleted because it’s not good for us (site owners and MAID owners)”?
That kind of comment would also have spared you from that comment that pointed out the apparent contradiction of this forum promoting a free, uncensored platform (SAFE) on a pretty heavily controlled site.

It’s for the kids!

It is wrong because this wasn’t the reason. After all we take actions and if you don’t believe we’re doing this in a honest and integer way then so be it, what can we do about people not believing us?

Any other points besides not believing we’re honest about our reasons?

EDIT: Nobody ever said it was pointed towards a Maidsafe employee.

1 Like

You pick out one of the 2 reasons why the post was removed and don’t talk about the other. The other was we don’t allow people to start a flamewar here. No matter who is involved. We’ve moved other topics/replies for the same reason over the last year, but you never complaint about any of them as far as I remember. You talk about someone from MaidSafe being targeted? And come up with a whole theory about why they favor the forum? Sorry @janitor I respect your opinions, but to me this sounds like some sort of conspiracy theory. This forum is favored by both the community and Maidsafe since 2014. Same for MAID owners, why would that post be not good for them? I don’t really get it. Because 2 groups of people have an issue? A coin would go down?

Well I’ve really enjoyed this thread… for all the right reasons I might add.

So many good arguments and important points being made, I’ve found my own opinion swayed back and forth a few times.

I do love this forum, it’s so nice to listen to so many bright and interesting people arguing/discussing.

I hope the issue itself gets resolved to the satisfaction of both parties, it would be a shame if any confusions or honest mistakes cast a shadow. I find it hard to imagine any shocking skulduggery has actually taken place, but then I am biased and possibly blinded by my love of everything SAFE.

4 Likes