One Chain to Rule Them All

One Chain to Rule Them All

Bitcoin currently has the maximum available hashrate on the planet, making it immune to attack from the world’s supercomputers.

Conclusion

There will be “one chain to rule them all”. Being “ruled by Bitcoin” is awesome. It’s like living in your own personal copy of the world’s most heavily-secured, most luxuriously-appointed mansion…rent free!

Those who resist Bitcoin’s blockchain, don’t understand the deal they are turning down. It’s that simple.

A comment on the linked article above from Reddit

Technically Paul maybe be right, but from an economics standpoint and social utility the world doesn’t work that way.

The fact that Litecoin still runs despite having ha $100 million dollar bounty shows that maximilism in the sense that all altcoins will be eaten by Bitcoin eventually is not reality.

Now you could argue from an engineering standpoint that Litecoin is really just an aberration, and over 100 year time frame may not exist.But we can only go on recent history. The world is full of variety even when evidence and science and even economics point to better systems.

So even if you concede that Ethereum is Vaporware (clearly its not), people will still spend money on vaporware.

However if you take a step back. Ethereum and other altcoins are already anchored to Bitcoin.
Ethereum will never exist without Bitcoin, because it is the stability of Bitcoin Network that underpins the ability to fund and transact in the crypto economies that exist on top.

If tomorrow the world wanted to fund Ethereum, they will in most cases buy Bitcoin to get to Ethereum. Sure they could fund directly in some exchanges Fiat to Ethereum, but the cryptoworld is anchored around Bitcoin.

I can exchange ether to Bitcoin, and deposit it to any exchange or service globally. I am not going back to Fiat to move things around.

Bitcoin is the USD of the Cryptoworld.

If Ethereum’s crowdsale had to be funded via Fiat Banking Ethereum would not exist. Its the ability to fund these systems via decentralized censorship resistant currency that makes all these experiments possible.

So I agree in Bitcoin maximalism that Bitcoin is the new territory of freedom, call it the New Cyber Colonies. And what the Cyber world needs more than anything is a stable immutable bitcoin to underpin everything, because if Ethereum fails or breaks the value embedded in the system would flow back to Bitcoin.

But if Bitcoin failed a much more simpler system, the value of all crypto would collapse. How could Ethereum succeed if Bitcoin could not.

I see no competition between Ethereum and Bitcoin, Ethereum is the Operating System to Bitcoin’s Core Protocol or Machine Language. Ethereum cannot exist without bitcoin, it’s not possible.

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That’s what I told several jokers on this forum who claimed Safecoin can exist in void without bitcoin.

I am told Ethereum will be adopted by the banks and wall street because it is programmable money, maybe it is possible one day because banks love centralization and probably could control the supply if they adapted the currency on their systems. But I think ethereum will be always out of date because something better will come along and maybe it be something meshed together like a safe ethereum coin and one will farm transaction using drive space.

But the crypto currency is still a experiment and each still represents a application of a function, myself I would like to see a bitcoin type coin to represent an operating and have functions and apps built on top of that.

As bitcoin is the largest secure network and has a simple function to transfer funds from point a to b, bitcoin will remain the heavy lifter, where ethereum may look like a fancy sports car I feel it may go fast and have all the fancy buttons, but can be easy broken in a few years.

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Nothing will be adopted (even bitcoin) by the banks if governments can’t control it. That’s the sad truth. The key characteristic of a successful token - in the eyes of the current currency kings - is that it will be more easily manipulated than the current crappy currencies.

Whatever unofficial currency we use - bitcoin, safecoin, Ethereum, etc. - represents an improvement over the official currency of any country. The first that should be killed off are the US dollar and the euro, but they should all die a quick death.

If the SAFE Network has a functionality that generates wide adoption, it may come to be that it will bypass the Bitcoin chain. Bitcoin has a fiat chokepoint. That is a huge regulator for value flowing into the Bitcoin ecosystem. SAFE on the other hand has (hopefully) the means of co-opting that liquidity via decentral exchanges such a SafeX. Add to that the proliferation of the currency units by farming, and dev awards ( as well as direct swap amongst people, and you have a different scene than has existed.

We’ll see.

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You actually meant to say Safecoin…I thought it must have been a typo and you meant Ether.

Could you expand on this thinking, I probably missed the discussion you had regarding the void?

Yeah I did mean Safecoin.

I was referring to several of my posts in topics most related to MAID (and future Safecoin) exchanges in which clueless individuals predicted a demise or at least a dramatic loss of importance of bitcoin because once it becomes possible to buy Safecoin for fiat, there will be no reason to own bitcoin.

The Reddit comment you quoted says why they are wrong. Even if/when it becomes possible to buy Safecoin for fiat, there will be little demand for that (and fiat prices will suck - too low when you’re selling, too high when you’re buying).

And most people who own crypto don’t want to exit into fiat. They usually park in Bitcoin before diving into something else.

Imagine exiting MAID in Brazilian real. I doubt there is even an order book for that. Yes people in Japan will be able to buy and sell Safecoin in Japanese yen, but it will never have as good a price as when they trade it for bitcoin.

Yeah, so void: currencies are traded for other currencies and the largest one in crypto is bitcoin. If bitcoin somehow crashed and disappeared now, all crypto currencies would crash at least 50%. How does one communicate the price of MAID today and what do we by and sell it for? Without bitcoin you can’t enter in size any cryptocurrency, and there is no more popular universal unit of accounting for crypto.

It’s funny how those clowns who claimed otherwise (in those other topics) now keep silent. Not their topic. Lol.

Bitcoin is in an interesting dilemma, was it ever capable of being a transactional currency. It seems confirmation is way too slow for retail, maybe more suited to settlement and transfers. Then you have the bankers trying hard to rip Bitcoin out of the blockchain.

Where do you think Bitcoin is in the hype cycle? It’s almost like you need two cycles for the technology now Bitcoin/ Blockchain

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For sure MAID relies on Bitcoin for this market. Unit of account, yes correct way of viewing I think, reserve crypto currency at present.

I just cant help but think about the sheer amount of cash it takes to run the network on a daily basis…do you know of any break even analysis on it?

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huh? there will be little demand? and you know that before you’ve ever seen safecoin working?

Only traders do this, the so called investors might/will sell their safecoins for fiat.

Seriously? What’s so hard on stopping with ridiculing other members of the community you’re so fond of communicating with? And that’s only this topic with 10 comments…

Why dont you message the guy if your upset, rather than crapping all over my post.

Transparency :slight_smile: sorry to bother your post but PMing leads to nagging about a lack of transparency and doing it in public, leads to this. You could have flagged it and sent me a PM it is bothered you really.

If @janitor was causing an issue on this thread, I would flag and mods would hopefully resolve via pm.

I like to create posts that have some archival value, so I now invite you to delete your entries in this thread.

Thanks

There have been various attempts. Being a hard money fan I liked the analysis that compared costs of fiat, gold and bitcoin.
The costs are well known, but people disagree what the benefits are. That’s why it’s difficult to say whether it’s sustainable or not (we’ll reach a practical conclusion, if not theoretical, few years from now).

The critics say confirmation times are long (compared to less secure alternatives), but you get less security. I absolutely don’t mind to transact in insecure coins, but I wouldn’t necessarily keep more than (say) few thousand dollars in them for weeks or months so although I agree that for many payments bitcoin isn’t viable at the moment (maybe it will be once Lighting Network and SegWit come on line, but it’s not now).
They also say transaction fees are expensive. Depends on the amount. For micro-transactions they are, but all payment systems are good for one thing and not so good for another. We don’t use Wire Transfer to pay for a $15 phone cover on Amazon.com, but you probably wouldn’t use PayPal to transfer a down payment for your overseas real estate investment.
So there are all these pro’s and con’s, but the bottom line is when one today parks value in crypto, it’s too expensive to exit to fiat and park it there. Bitcoin is the most liquid and most secure, so for that reason alone it’s a reasonable decision. Even if you never buy any good or service, it’s the best place to store value and it’s widely used as the unit of account.

Now back to the benefits: 1) It’s very hard to confiscate, 2) It’s not going to be impacted by the negative interest rate lunacy so if the lunatics from central banks keep going, it’s going to be one of obvious escape routes, 3) IIRC mining costs that need to be paid are few hundred million dollars a year; that’s not hard to collect once the number of transactions goes up (after those changes, including the max. block size increase). (Other cryptocurrencies have similar benefits, but aren’t as liquid and secure, as I mentioned earlier).

When have we heard any of those bitcoin or crypto critics in general asking about the costs of Negative Interest Rates Policy? Currently trillion$ of bonds carry negative interest. That’s money that central banks steal from those who save.
$6 trn. at 3% is $180 billion dollars in unpaid interest per year. If you add the hard to measure costs of other forms of destruction perpetrated by the fiat system, I’d say bitcoin is doing great and it’s not too expensive for the value and convenience it provides.

I am not a bitcoin-only guy, but bitcoin does look like an anchor to me. it’s great that there are other cryptocurrencies. As long as people can choose what to use, anything that works is fine by me.

Look at supply and demand (and prices!) of BTC on local bitcoins for say Sweden, and tell me with straight face that Safecoin will be more liquid and in higher demand than BTC and then I’ll reconsider.

Okay I’ll do it for you to increase signal-to-noise ratio of this post.

Spreads:

  • the largest CA BTC exchange 554-557 (CAD 3)
  • Kraken Canada CAD 541.510 - 547.000 (CAD 5+)
  • For comparison, on bitfinex.com: USD 414.260 - 414.360 (USD 0.1)

Liquidity:

  • On Kraken CA, if you were to sell 10 BTC thre now you’d get CAD 545 for the first 4, but CAD 530 for the last 6

And that’s an active market for the largest crypto-currency in a Tier 1 country.
In almost all Tier 2 countries (in cryptocurrency terms) you can’t even get the freaking price in the local currency , let alone trade - everything is calculated by way of USD (like peev.com calculates the CAD price). Over weekend (like now) when banks are closed you can’t even guess the price because the banks aren’t open so exchange rates are “stale”.

Are you’re saying Safecoin will will become more successful on local currency markets than bitcoin sometime soon (say within 3 years)?

It’s not one topic, but hundreds of comments across 10-20 topics over the past two years, in which various individuals (at least one of whom had forgotten to mention his investment in BitShares in a post where he was promoting BitShares) shamelessly peddled total nonsense. (Another group of such experts are those who have been calling for MAID to trade on as many cyrpto-exchanges as possible because it’s somehow “better”. Now months after Bittrex started supporting MAID, the volume is pathetic and they command a 1% market share. Thankfully for SafeX there was only one taker, so there’s still good chance for a “native” SAFE exchange to take off.)

Thanks for the research, really appreciate it :slight_smile: ! Although this is only Canada, how about other countries? Bitonic (a BTC <-> EUR seller/buyer) in The Netherlands has sold their 200.000th bitcoin on the 7th of January this year. the infrastructure for buying or selling bitcoin here is very good with iDeal but still, it’s quite a lot.

Besides those numbers and whatever numbers other counties have, I don’t really compare Safecoin to Bitcoin. As we all know Bitcoin right now is mostly used to speculate on the prices of itself or the other cryptocurrencies. I believe Safecoin will have some of these aspects as well, but for me it offers a lot more than Bitcoin does (storage, anonymity, computing etc.). That’s why I wouldn’t be surprised if there indeed was more demand for Safecoin than Bitcoin in 3 years, won’t be easy though.

I’ll not go further on this, because @chrisfostertv didn’t like the topic to go in another direction :). I don’t mind discussing it further in another topic of course, let me know if you want me to.

So you have gone from

Seriously? What’s so hard on stopping with ridiculing other members of the community you’re so fond of communicating with? And that’s only this topic with 10 comments…

to

Thanks for the research, really appreciate it :slight_smile:

…in the space of one reply by @janitor

I’ve observed @janitor going from super villain to a guy dispensing great research within the space of 1 comment.

Am I missing something, is this some kind of coordinated good cop/ bad cop routine?

I’m paid to bring more traffic to the site, one way or another. When the mods discover my troll-farming rate drops they order me to contribute in a meaningful way. I couldn’t do this without Ritalin.
:relieved:

It’s not all black and white.
If someone does someone you appreciate you thank him, if someone does something you don’t like you tell him. Not sure what the insinuations are actually :slight_smile: .

You do realize you’re now derailing the thread yourself after I tried to get it back on track after you asked me to?

Fair enough, your output is prodigious and provides a technical viewpoint minus the political correctness.

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