On creating SAFE alt-coins

With the data he has given, you can create any sort of coin you want. Usage is voluntary, depending whether or not you want to play the game presented.

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@Seneca, this is very cool.

I really appreciate the explanation. I’ve been messing with ideas about how to do this sort of thing, but really don’t have the knowledge to know where to start. I’m really looking forward to how your project roles out.

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I just figured that a hard-cap can simply be integrated in the difficulty target formula, by choosing one where only a particular number of coin identifiers result in a difficulty target above zero. The others won’t have a valid solution and can by definition not be mined.

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Thank you that you did, it gives a better idea how to do it.

[quote=“Seneca, post:5, topic:7192”]
open source wallets
[/quote] Will SAFE altcoins have the same problems that bitcoin altcoins have due to their wallets? For instance with Coinprism you can send a coloredcoin to every bitcoinaddress, but by doing so, your coin can be lost forever, if the wallet is not able to read your coloredcoin tag. Counterparty solves this problem by informing the sender that the address, that they want to send a coin to is not a Counterparty wallet.

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No, SAFE natively recognizes SD objects from different types, so no worries there!

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This would make a really good rfc so many folks can punch holes in it if possible. On first look it appears though to be extremely well thought out. I think we should formalise this and make it a part of documentation on the wiki/web site etc. as many folks will be very interested in this process. Be neat to also run tests on this during the testing phase. If such coins were able to somehow get tagged/pegged for a side-chain type solution then who knows what possibilities would come of it.

I can sniff a potential mechanism for divisibility etc. as well, this could grow into something quite substantial indeed. Best of all it’s the community now starting to take hold and be the innovators on their own network (SAFE) and this has been a goal for sure. Great work @Seneca as we move through the mvp you will get a lot more maidsafe eyes on this as well to help out.

TL;DR Here lies a potential game changer for the SAFE network and projects that run on it.

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Could you not also just reject any coin over limit identifier as not a valid coin.

Forgive me for asking what should be obvious, the outline process is that

  • The user buys from the SAFE network one or more SDs giving them the tag_id of the “alt-coin” being mined and an identifier that has not been used for the tag_type.
  • If the user is smart then they set their identifier to one less than the current minimum
  • How does anyone know what the current minimum ident is???
  • the user thus owns the un-mined “alt-coin”
  • the user then proceeds to “mine” the coin to find the nonce that makes it valid
  • the user can then use the coin

Would this be the basic process?

Also the question I had about how one knows the smallest ident that currently exists, since AFAIK SAFE does not have any way to know. It only knows when you try to buy a SD with a tag_type/ident that exists the purchase fails

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If he can choose where to aim, this is how the miner learns he’s failed, although an intelligent miner would do a search (I patent using a bisection algorithm for this purpose :wink:) to locate the current maximum unused identifier.

However, I’m not sure he can choose, so that might be rubbish. Bring on the RFC @Seneca! :slightly_smiling:

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Yes without some other method a modified binary search would seem to be the only real option

What I was very much more interested to know is if my list of steps is right. If not then my understanding of what @Seneca wrote is wrong.

Yes it’s correct, but you’d be looking for the maximum unused identifier rather than the minimum. Higher identifier -> higher difficulty target. Higher difficulty target is easier to mine.

I think serious miners will generally buy a large set of coins in advance to mine them. It would also be possible for non-miners to buy high ID coins to sell them to miners later on. Might not pay off though.

@seneca how to identify the highest ID coin?

Or that presale part sets the maximum ID value, and then
Then it becomes a race to get the valid nonce with the lowest Identifier
and only less than presold-highest ID value == almost like how genesis block works…

Then you would fill the content of the STructured Data with the parameters, and future people and applications and validate that this coin was in fact properly mined. Since the STructuredDAta at that spot is consumed and can’t be duplicated by others since it is an owned “domain” already.

Then person can send forward to someone else interested in that coin, and validate it is a legitimate coin.

Lower Identifiers are harder to get because that’s the obvious place to start and also highest id coins on the way down, I think so.

Very much enjoying where things are going; @seneca, Using bitcoin keys can generate a script that could be used in the content of StructureData and passed around and validated by others; I am seeing that this will be happening, this mining spec, this is awesome!!

Now a way to have unique

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Brilliant stuff, Seneca!

If there was a way to adjust difficulty based on minting rate too, it would be the icing on the cake!

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And… buying more safecoins.

You’re doing the lords work. haha.

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Essentially, people could participate in the forum in an example… people can participate in the forum using coins they generate from their own motivation. No one would have to sell coins to the people; coin acquisition can take place locally, personally.

And the algorithm distribution would give a meaninful quantity based on participation; more coins potential could indicate more demand;

and could they also be visibly consumed, and continuously be regenerated

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Which is why I thought you would start at the highest and work down. Thus finding the identifier that is one less than the current lowest. Because all the higher ones are taken and the highest available is the one to get which is one lower than the highest.

Of course that assumes that there are no gaps. Good luck finding those in unbought gaps, 512 bit idents is a lot to linearly search through for some that were missed.

Now if I am not mistaken then the difficulty will only increase slowly since a range of 512 is a lot. Even a million coins bought/mined a day would still have the difficulty increase very slowly. Is that right?

Also there is more than one solution to make the coin valid, the user only has to find one. Is that correct.

BTW: you can tell I new to mining and have never gone into the maths of bitcoin (at least not yet)

BTW: great idea and the best idea yet for this sort of thing.

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I can see people who only have phones needing to buy them since it maybe impossible or incredibly slow on their device. Not all phones are fast&powerful.

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If this works… it would turn alt-coin creation & distribution on it’s head!

There’s so many game changing benefits, I don’t know where to start. It would be amazing to crowd fund our farming co-op, using SAFE alt-coins.

This also increases Safecoin’s utility, and value… because it is needed to create the alt-coins.


Here’s a video segment where @dallyshalla talks about it from 1:07:40 to 1:10:56

I think this will be a very interesting topic for the next hangout. Alt-Coin creation is a very popular trend in crypto currency culture.

Most popular use cases

  • Crowd Funding
  • Shareholder (Dividends)
  • Consumable (Liking, Voting, Commenting)
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Just a question please

I can see the Consumable

But for Token shares, would not the creator just create the “alt-coin/token” and distribute them as they see fit (by selling, exchanging, giving away or whatever)???

And crowdfunding? if giving the “alt-coin/token” in exchange for the amount given then again why wouldn’t the creator create the “alt-coin/token” and give them to the people funding???

I really must be missing something :frowning:

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If you don’t want a 100% pre-mine.

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Yes.

I was speaking about the “general” benefit of alt-coins inside the SAFE Network.

The actual mining solution in the OP was specific to an infinite supply.

So in the case of Shares, the creator wouldn’t need to mine. They would “pre-buy” 100%.

In some cases of crowd funding, not involving ROI (dividends), the alt-coins are used in exchange for other things like: signed book copies, special shirts, backstage passes… first access to a new game… etc.

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