Offering safecoin in exchange for using SAFE?

That would probably work. Normally site operators would have no idea who is using their site, so this would basically be users selling the site operator some usage metrics data.

This concept is PtC (Pay the Client). Currently clients are paid with free Gets, paying them with SC on top of that is challenging without advertising. Having a distributed advertising platform that could be turned off or on by the user (at will) would be powerful. Advertising is going to happen on SAFE one way or another. I think it’s safe to say that the current form of advertising on the web is broken and annoying. I would hate to see the Hodge podge of clickbait transferred over to the new platform. Imo it would be better long term if there was a built in conduit that fit with the overall SAFE UX. In the same way SAFE will reduce the cost of storage to lowest possible, it could do the same for advertising since all the middle men would be taken out of the equation. This feature could just be an app, but it needs to be the path of least resistance for advertisers if the whole concept is to be effective. For that reason I think browser integration, with an on/off setting is probably the best route.

Pros:
-Users can earn SC without farming by selling their views/time.
-Adverts created with the feature are easily blocked by the user if they are not interested.
-Advertisers pay minimum possible amount in real time to reach their audience.
-Faster adoption and increased rate of network growth.

Cons (for advertisers):
-Advertisers would not be able to profile customers to the degree they are able to now.

Other pro/con?

Should this feature delay launch? NO.

Imo, all of the network reward structures can be phased in layers. Primary need for launch is the farming reward (PtF). Maybe in beta PtP gets phased in and experimented with so that any security vulnerabilities can be dealt with(gaming). After that, PtC integration completes the trifecta.

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I think an interesting feature which encourage donation, and also demonstrate of effectiveness for particular sites, would be for donors to be able to publish their donations, based on a verifiable ledger. Same for a sites accepting donations: to be able to list totals to date or for a given period.

In both cases these could be anonymous, or with the donors consent associated with an identity.

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Advertising is intended to attract (new) attention, e.g. to make people aware they can get rewarded for being active on a forum.
(I strongly dislike and distrust advertising.)

However, being paid to be e.g. active on a forum is not advertising. It is ab incentive and for retention.

The ability to pay random visitors for contributions or attention (not necessarily visitor’s data) or coding contributions or uploads of content, would cut out even more middlemen.

I love the idea of this. If it is as simple as a ‘like’ button and sends a micro donation, I would definitely enjoy using it liberally.

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What about malware that hijacks the mouse…???

Thats a huge one and beyond this discussion I would guess. With that it could drain your account while you were not looking

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We haven’t discussed this extensively but I do remember a brief discussion we had with Jim and Josh I think, where I was imagining something like the metamask extension as a native component of the browser. Although, I imagine this even more natively supported by SAFE and the browser without a need to use any API (even if this is also an option for site devs), I imagine that once we have RDF in place, a website/webapp root FilesContainer can publish a triple (RDF triple) which tells the browser that it’s willing to accept donations and at which address, with any description explaining what the donations will be used for, etc., so you don’t need to call any API, you add metadata to the site’s root FilesContainer with all the info, the browser shows the donation button when this metadata is found in the site being loaded, plus…we can keep going with so may things this will open up!

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That’s an interesting advantage of RDF I wasn’t aware of. Presumably that capability will be valuable for smart contracts too?

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That seems like a very smart, easy and elegant way. Could be a very important piece of the ecosystem that makes it a success.

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I think what we can have coming down the pipes (after all the basic stuff is out of the way) will be a step further than just donations, and it’s something I’m really quite excited about.

When considering how to develop the UX of the Network, a little thought experiment I often like to deploy, is “what would be the best way to shake a monopoly power out of its tree”.

In this case, what can be done to take Amazon down a peg or two, when it comes to eCommerce?

So, we look at it in two parts, how can we take the convenience of the one-stop-shop nature of the Amazon shopping experience, and make it trans-network, and at the same time, how do we leverage the infrastructure-less nature of SAFE, and allow individual traders to easily sell their wares? How do we take the burden of building and maintaining an effective eCommerce platform off their backs?

We’ve got the power to do both. A shopping cart which could be filled even when browsing between sites, across multiple sessions; one click purchasing that gets funds to the right people without the shopper ever having to worry about it; shipping addresses that are automatically kept up-to-date from a single location etc. The list goes on.

And one the seller’s side of things, it need not be any more cumbersome than adding a purchase link to their site (with all that RDF goodness behind it). Payments, and shipment information all coming through their wallet app, again, with always up-to-date buyer information, thanks to linked data.

I did sketch all this out a while back… must try and dig that out.

Anyway, suffice to say this goes way deeper than just donations or tips. We’ll ultimately be able to accommodate a multitude of business models, depending on vendors needs. That’s one of the reasons I wouldn’t be keen on baking a specific type of ‘tip’ button into the browser, but rather let site owners specify all this from the site design itself, according to their needs.

Having said that, it’ll still be super easy for you to send payment of any size you like to a site owner, all you’ll do is @ the public name, and the payment will get to the right place. And that’ll be a 2-click operation from the site information in the browser chrome even in the early iterations.

SAFE will be one hell of an eCommerce platform folks, and this is only just starting to sink in.

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This is amazing stuff and how I’ve been thinking of JAMS ever since I learned about RDF/Linked Data. A content creator can have PtP, and content curators should also be able to have a list of songs and earn PtP, and then someone could share any song from that list with our (planned) embedded player and earn too. This is network wide value chains that pay the people directly.

Looking forward to making some infographics at some point on this.

My purpose of replying here Jim was to mention that I’d love to see Maidsafe make these all as plugins that you earn PtD on. :slightly_smiling_face:

I’m thinking that JAMS, our (named but not yet told) Artist onboarding service, and embedded player may all be separate services with their own PtD. At least that’s the hope.

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This chat on commerce etc could probably do with a thread all of it’s own… it’s a vast subject.

What say ye mods?

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This thread has been a very interesting read for now, I feel the native monetary integration with the web can be a total game changer and one of the strongest points of the network.

Not having to fill all these sign up forms that put me off in many small e-commerce sites would be a great step by itself.

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This is so awesome Jim. I appreciate the diving into possibilities here and sharing the thoughts with us :slight_smile: And yeah, all the possibilities of cutting out middle hands, as well as making online presence so much more smooth and natural. It’s like upgrading from the bumpy ride of horse cart on mud roads to a Tesla on perfect pavement.

It would be fantastic to see a sketch of it whenever you find them :slight_smile:

On a slight parallel note, the shipping part could be a bit tricky. Today it’s common with escrow services. I wonder what role that would have and how, or if there’s going to be pure reputation based and with unavoidable initial cost in the beginning for sellers with no reputation as well as buyers risking to buy from them. And then there’s the dimension of keeping anonymity. I mean, at some point we got to go physical and then there’s probably (?) just the option left to use the real identity. Still, it’s interesting to think about these things again, in the light of this new technology.

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I’d really like to see some overarching concepts of how commerce might be pieced together on Safe.

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Maybe items could be shipped to a post office or other SAFE pickup location and you could pick it up anonymously by providing cryptographic proof that it is your package.

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Aah… Excellent!

So, there could be a SAFE shipping service drop-off, where seller can go in anonymously and drop a package, with no address just a code of some sort, incomprehensible to the seller.
The shipping service scans the code and is authorized to access what ever data structure it leads to, and there they find a chosen pickup SAFE shipping location and where (in network) to send notification of delivery. (The buyer might want to choose different pickup locations on a case-by-case basis.)

Buyer goes to this SAFE shipping pickup location, and for example shows the code (QR for example) from delivery to a scanner. I think this should be enough proof. But in case there’s some loop hole there, there could be an additional layer where the buyer generates a signed QR over the code, and shows that one, by which the scanner reads and verifies the signature.

(It sounds shady I know :joy: but you don’t have to be shady to not want be tracked and have your life mapped and analysed.)

I know there are a ton of caveats when it comes to the physical location of such a SAFE shipping service. But those aside for the moment…
(Like for example, in China the shipping service would either not be allowed to operate, or would be coerced to cooperate. So, when it comes to physical, it seems there’s always going to be limits to what can be done within the legal framework of the regime.)

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I was thinking the buyer would provide a public key associated with the package. Upon pickup, the pickup service would issue a challenge that the buyer would sign with the private key associated with the public key, thereby proving that the package was for them.

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This is an interesting concept and if it took off could become the next revolution in transportation like fedex etc.

Depending on the receiver’s desire the package could even hold the final address and companies like fedex could deliver it to the door and the receiver “sign” for it. This address could be one that only fedex can unlock using their key. Or as you say a complete anon service.

Even possible is that the company sends a message to your throwaway ID that the parcel is in town and you have the option to specify a delivery address (by signing of course). This way the sender never knows the address and if the ID used is a throwaway ID then there can be no tracing of your other deliveries through other companies/postoffice or parcels you pick up.

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