Offering safecoin in exchange for using SAFE?

Similar to Brave browser, is this something we could offer?

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Brave does this by providing an advertising platform. Maybe the maid team could implement that.

I may be mistaken, would SOLID help serve relevant adverts?

Edit: in a more anonymous way?

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Maybe someone can make a standalone app to fill an possible need for getting paid for watching adds.

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Did some thinking, don’t know how the Brave echosystem works in detail, so this might be something different.

Think it would be very nice to have wallet built into the browser and some easy donation api that devlopers of sites can use, so that donating/subscription becomes almost one-click for the user. Has this been discussed yet? Browser wallet and donating system, feels essential. @bochaco

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Sending a payment to a site owner is gonna be suuuuper easy.

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May I ask of a more advanced feature for the donation?
As food for thought, for later.

So, the scenario is that you browse thew web, you see this and that, and you just hit that Donate button with what ever sum feels right at the moment. Clickclickclick. No hesitation.
What I would like to see is that, the donations aren’t actually sent at that moment, rather added to a cart, and at any given time, you can go to checkout, and just see the whole list.

Then you can go “Wait a minute, I gave 2300 nanos to that site, but only 45 to this one that was obviously much cooler? Let’s adjust that.
After adjusting the whims of the moment to the after the fact wisdom you accrued, you can hit the definitive Send button.

What do you think Jim?
Again, for later, when basic stuff is already demonstrated :slight_smile:

I think this could make it easier to just go with the flow and not hesitate about donating the first amount that comes to your mind. You know in the back of your head, that you can always review it all before sending.

Obviously, this would be a mode that you can turn off, to avoid that extra step. So “Shopping-cart mode” vs “Instant”.

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This will end up with much less donated amount by user. Plus it would not solve the problem you think it solves. People have tons of biases. They don’t remember whole history of some event, but they measure it as an average of last ending moment and top moment. Thanks to this bias people are not able to evaluate some experience they had in past to other without huge flaws. For example torture a group of people for a minute, and than steal half of the group all their money and do not steal anything from the second half. Then ask them to evaluate their feelings about the event. The group tortured and robbed will evaluate the event as better experience than that which was only tortured. The reason is, they remember top and last moment. They do not remember duration. Top was some during torture and first group had last just some money lost. Second had last torture. Torture is worse, so their average moment they remember is worse. Your solution will make services that enjoy people for longer time earn less than those who have short but intense experience.

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Could visitors to SAFE Network sites or users of Dapps be paid easily too?

Sounds like a bad idea. The SAFE network is vulnerable enough with GETs being free. Incentivizing GETs is really asking for trouble I’d say.
A targeted ad network would be the way to go for paying users. Something like the Enigma protocol allows for this, while users still maintain privacy. This is possible through some zkSNARK magic.

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Well as the site owner or app creator needs to first buy or get SafeCoins to pay them out. Don’t see any issues with that.

Maybe not for the MVP. :wink:
I see two great ways for people to earn money.

  1. Network Level Support: Farming.

  2. Service Level Support: Taking part in Advertising is one way.

    Accepting payment in return to renting their eyeballs or ears to a company marketing a product.
    Cutting out the Adsense/Adwords middle men.
    The way brave browser implements this should be studied, they have it done well.
    As a company this is one area Maidsafe could make their mark. Become the Adsense/Adwords
    for the safenetwork.

    I also see a many opportunities for service level support/payment network. Imagine, earning
    SAFECoins for running a weather station on your roof? You could set a price for each data request
    sent to the device.

    We haven’t scratches the surface. The future will blow your mind.

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You may be right. Although I think you overrate your ability to predict people a bit. The image you paint is a bit limited IMO.

The basics of the idea is to add option which facilitates planning vs not adding that option.

Let me give some other examples of what can be done with it:

Expand to read off topic stuff

Influencer

Say you’re an influencer. Every day you click through sites that you’re going to talk about in your blog/vlog/whatev. So you also want to demonstrate how you support these ideas (like a good influencer) and you build up a cart of donations. Now, behind the scenes, there’s always a bunch of work with stuff like this. You meticulously go over the list, go back into some site, check it again, and adjust your donation. When you are done this cart can be shared with your followers.
The followers can with a single click either load it into their browser to revise/adjust, or have the exact cart Sent from their wallet with that single click.

So this examples demonstrates how an influencer can magnify the donations immensely with such a feature.
People don’t have to surf through the sites, and click. They follow their influencer, and trust their judgement.

(If that is a good or bad thing overall, is more philosophy. The thing is, I can definitely see that one being used. People increasingly follow influencers more than they follow politicians, and vote every day with their wallet, more than with votes.)

Charity / philantropy

Another thing is maybe you do a slightly different type of operation, sort of a charity, philantropy or something like it.
(NB the sites may be owned by anonymous entities so there might be no way to support them other than by the in-browser donations.)
Maybe you have a squad of people that work with finding worthy sites, and they build up checkout carts, that they send in for review / go-ahead at end of day.

Browser suggestions based on donations

You could opt in to store every donation cart you bought. Then you can feed it (anonymously of course) to a service which takes in these from users all over. It then gives you suggestions on sites you haven’t donated to yet, that others that had similar “taste” to you (i.e. same ratio of donations to same sites) donated to.
So, it could be a really neat way to crawl the web by hitting that “Give me next suggestion” button.

From the top of my head :slight_smile: That’s a couple of things it could be used for except for the main thing, to actually give you some overview of your donation spending (etc.).

The basics of the idea is to add option which facilitates planning.


Anyway, this is OT. Let’s continue this discussion in new topic if we must.

That would probably work. Normally site operators would have no idea who is using their site, so this would basically be users selling the site operator some usage metrics data.

This concept is PtC (Pay the Client). Currently clients are paid with free Gets, paying them with SC on top of that is challenging without advertising. Having a distributed advertising platform that could be turned off or on by the user (at will) would be powerful. Advertising is going to happen on SAFE one way or another. I think it’s safe to say that the current form of advertising on the web is broken and annoying. I would hate to see the Hodge podge of clickbait transferred over to the new platform. Imo it would be better long term if there was a built in conduit that fit with the overall SAFE UX. In the same way SAFE will reduce the cost of storage to lowest possible, it could do the same for advertising since all the middle men would be taken out of the equation. This feature could just be an app, but it needs to be the path of least resistance for advertisers if the whole concept is to be effective. For that reason I think browser integration, with an on/off setting is probably the best route.

Pros:
-Users can earn SC without farming by selling their views/time.
-Adverts created with the feature are easily blocked by the user if they are not interested.
-Advertisers pay minimum possible amount in real time to reach their audience.
-Faster adoption and increased rate of network growth.

Cons (for advertisers):
-Advertisers would not be able to profile customers to the degree they are able to now.

Other pro/con?

Should this feature delay launch? NO.

Imo, all of the network reward structures can be phased in layers. Primary need for launch is the farming reward (PtF). Maybe in beta PtP gets phased in and experimented with so that any security vulnerabilities can be dealt with(gaming). After that, PtC integration completes the trifecta.

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I think an interesting feature which encourage donation, and also demonstrate of effectiveness for particular sites, would be for donors to be able to publish their donations, based on a verifiable ledger. Same for a sites accepting donations: to be able to list totals to date or for a given period.

In both cases these could be anonymous, or with the donors consent associated with an identity.

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Advertising is intended to attract (new) attention, e.g. to make people aware they can get rewarded for being active on a forum.
(I strongly dislike and distrust advertising.)

However, being paid to be e.g. active on a forum is not advertising. It is ab incentive and for retention.

The ability to pay random visitors for contributions or attention (not necessarily visitor’s data) or coding contributions or uploads of content, would cut out even more middlemen.

I love the idea of this. If it is as simple as a ‘like’ button and sends a micro donation, I would definitely enjoy using it liberally.

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What about malware that hijacks the mouse…???

Thats a huge one and beyond this discussion I would guess. With that it could drain your account while you were not looking

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We haven’t discussed this extensively but I do remember a brief discussion we had with Jim and Josh I think, where I was imagining something like the metamask extension as a native component of the browser. Although, I imagine this even more natively supported by SAFE and the browser without a need to use any API (even if this is also an option for site devs), I imagine that once we have RDF in place, a website/webapp root FilesContainer can publish a triple (RDF triple) which tells the browser that it’s willing to accept donations and at which address, with any description explaining what the donations will be used for, etc., so you don’t need to call any API, you add metadata to the site’s root FilesContainer with all the info, the browser shows the donation button when this metadata is found in the site being loaded, plus…we can keep going with so may things this will open up!

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