NVO Decentralized Exchange - Crowdsale


#990

I think since @nemgun said he can speak for the other project partners, you need to clarify if indeed he did speak for you and the others with the comments, claims, decisions of the direction and relationship with Maidsafe and the members of this forum.

At the moment I think everyone is somewhat taken aback with the events of the last day and the claims, the attack on Maidsafe, and confusion by one who claims to speak for the project.


#991

@tonbi If you spend 30 minutes, you’ll see why people from dozens of countries are watching the SafeNet with such interest and undying enthusiasm! Look around, it can change your life more than 7 million :wink:


#992

Finkle is Einhorn. Einhorn is Finkle.

I wonder if tonbi is nemgum?


#993

The “launching in 4 mths” would indicate a decision to not use Safenet given previous statements made. It is also clear by “Nemgun’s our god” that they are speaking as one. It’s over…
Just the Maid dump to go now to put the cherry on the top.
Why is everyone seemingly so confident that Alex is a trustworthy “good guy” who will support Maidsafe here? I’m just asking because I know nothing about him. If this is the case and he has any influence on these guys, then the No1 thing he should do is persuade this crew to refund any unhappy investors who were mis-sold the plan to build an exchange on Safe.
This is fraud imo and will have repercussions for those involved I’m pretty sure.
(Remember Centennial coin of prosperity btw?)
Whatever this Alex does next if involved in the project will be extremely informative… whatever it is.
I’m very concerned here myself.


#994

My cofounders will deliver. When I post the announcement it will be just a simple we are leaving Maidsafe for a faster alternative that we can implement, so there won’t be any attack on Maidsafe coming from our side in any official statement.

People need NVO just as they need a decentralized internet like the Safenetwork or nemgun’s network. We shouldn’t be fighting in the first place. It’s like fighting who can provide cleaner drinking water.


#995

And the reward for scam of the year goes to …


#996

We’ve received multiple flags about different posts and some are obviously violating the guidelines. We do not want to delete any posts because it might be important for some people to read them as well.


#997

From the fact that you refute nothing @nemgun said on your behalf that you are in agreement with him and agree with his comments.

Thanks that is what I wanted to clear up.


#998

The thing is what’s nemgun said is similiar to what many developers say when looking at Maidsafe. They seemed to be doing things on the fly with no ability to explain exactly how anything worked and how it all build up together for the full network to be launched. Just bits and pieces here and there. I doubt if there is a single person that knows how everything works for the full network to be launched. He asked for a full architecture plan which can’t be delivered. When you are building an architecture you need a single solidified document explaining everything. I will agree with him there. Sending him a bunch of wikis, podcasts, websites, youtube to fully understand a concept is stupid.

I disagree with nemgun that Maidsafe is a scam. I think the method to achieve their goals is simply a mess that were not documented out properly or their approach to the problem is simply not a good approach that leave too many questions unanswered.

As for nemgun’s network he did create a decentralized internet. Originally, he wanted it to be called Safenet to support Maidsafe for helping us during the crowdsale. And don’t be mislead by his poor english he studied that in a month and is using google translate. He thought the Maidsafe team wanted to work together, but it turned out you guys were mocking him.

So in conclusion:

  1. Nemgun did understand and read all of those stuff about maidsafe. The problem is he just doesn’t understand how are they going to deliver the answer to the problems because it’s not documented nor does it make sense. Some problems have impossible solutions. He said it doesn’t exist and it’s “bullshit” about certain methods to achieve it.
  2. Nemgun created his own decentralized network he called it Safenet because he wanted to help Maidsafe deliver their project. It has all the requirements of being a decentralized network (except domain names), and it uses a different approach to tackle the problem without going through something ridiculously hard to deliver.

This isn’t an attack on Maidsafe. If we wanted to attack maidsafe we wouldn’t try to name the new network nemgun created safenet and let Maidsafe fork the technology if they wanted… Anyhow I am looking to wrap this up so we can get back to work. For me it’s a simple which direction is the fastest to deliver NVO and this drama is not part of it. I fully support Nemgun. He is a god in NVO :slight_smile:


#999

These guys are some crazy birds. If I had not invested money in them, it would have been very funny…


#1000

You lost me at:

What the ?

I think the most surprising part is that NVO is asking ‘architecture’ questions after deciding to build on the SAFE network instead of before…


#1001

I strongly suspect that the plan was the same all the time. They collect money on the prestige of the SafeNetwork and make their own … scam


#1002

To put this into perspective. That is like asking for the unified (or single solidified) architecture for the internet protocols. You won’t get it and it doesn’t exist, incomplete overviews do exist. That is because the internet is made up of a number of protocols, TCP/IP, UDP, HTTP, HTTPS, SMTP, NTP, UseNet, and so on.

Similar while SAFE is being built there is not going to be any unified document of the architecture.

I say this for the benefit of yourself and others who may read this silliness of “give me the ONE document”

When the community and David tried to offer help, it was met with “how stupid are you” I am so smart I can solve the next communication method after fibre optics. and create a new safenet, and listen to 150 hours of pod cast in one night. And do all this while doing other things.

No wonder people started to disbelieve what he was saying.

He said he knew what SAFE was about, but then proceeded to show he didn’t.

I doubt people were mocking him, but rather displaying disbelief and he could not back any one of the claims except calling people idiots.

It is pretty obvious that you are indeed in agreement with him and the views he expressed.

It is sad that you both could not realise that without getting an overview of all the protocols involved with SAFE you could not see that SAFE involves many architectures and many documents, not just one. But in the demand for the ONE documents that shows all the architecture you missed the obvious that there will be many and they need the overviews to guide your way through them. And that will take TIME, not one night.

In any case I hope you do succeed with your project for the sake of the investors and yourself.

Don’t assume I am some fanboy, I have built and been involved with building some of the current internet in the 70’s and 80’s. Been a IT contractor and been a manager.


#1003

If you are building a safenet app right now you would be able to do it yes? Now what if I ask you to create the Safenetwork would you be able to do it? That’s the same situation we had before nemgun joined. We trusted Maidsafe completely to have everything figured out so we only need to care about what we need to deliver our app.

Nemgun was the only one to question how can the full network will be launched after fully inspecting it. That’s why he asked for the architecture. He also asked the question because he thought the Maidsafe team wanted to work with him to deliver the Safenetwork so he needed to have all those questions answered in one document instead of in bits and pieces.

While testing the validator for NVO, he ran into possible ways of implementing it on the Safenetwork, but he found out along the way that…the methods for the Safenetwork to achieve what they promised is problematic as in in there shouldn’t be a way to solve it. That’s why he asked for full architecture plan and thinks it will never be finished.


#1004

Keep digging :slight_smile: I’m done with this.


#1005

We don’t need to continue with this attack back and forth to explain ourselves. Nemgun’s solution is faster so we will do it. The safenetwork isn’t a private buyers club it will be there for us to use once it’s launched if we need it.

Either way, we are covered.


#1006

If I were you @tonbi I would ask for specific issues here. So specifically what will not work, what is an impossible solution that will not work?

I would say you need to do this and be clear, we have not seen any specifics from @nemgun but I would be always interested if anyone can point to a specific and say it cannot be done. By specific, take one of the (modular) libraries, find fault in that design etc. or fault in the RFC or whatever and come back to us. If your god tells you this and you still present NVO as running on SAFE then you are heading for a bad place.

Otherwise you will be purposefully misleading people who supported your ICO and that is where there will be repercussions. Just the spamming and trolling by your team member/god/co-founder etc. will ring alarm bells. I do think you need to clear this up.

If you guys have code it would be wise to post it for comment/review etc. It’s just easier to be open and honest. If you have a dev who has fully read and inspected the network, where are the findings? As a CEO you need to ask for some kind of evidence surely, perhaps not though, but that would be weird and ignorance is not a defence in law in the UK. You do really need to know.I need to know if there are real deficiencies in SAFE, the whole community do, but we have a plethora of ways to find that out, including testnets.

I would distance myself from unfounded claims/critiques until you have solid facts, one second this guy knows nothing, then he knows everything, he asks for papers but then you say he has read them all? The dichotomy of this situation is not good for your project and will harm our project, unless you get specifics and stick to a single truth. Does the guy understand SAFE and how it’s built or not? If so has he specific issues ? Why are there no questions in github/dev forum or user forum about any such issues?

I say this as I hope it will help, otherwise you are in a place where you are acting with no evidence and it’s a lot of money you raised. As a director of a company it’s your duty to act on information and validate it, seriously, you need to.

Your current get out would be to say “we have no faith in SAFE” and run away from it, but explain it to your investors and really that means refunding people, but trying to stay and poke holes like this is actually putting you in a bad place as a director of a business, if indeed you are (I am not sure of the company structure you have). The other option is to say you have created SAFE and prove that or say you will prove it in X days/weeks and perhaps buy time that way, in any case you will need to be clear what you are doing with the funds and a pivot is OK, but you do need to be very clear.

In any case this is very shaky ground for you, I would get facts of any issues your team think exist and ask specific questions. This forum and the dev forum are great for that.

I hope this helps.


#1007

NVO wasn’t created for the Safenetwork. The purpose is to provide a decentralized exchange so any method to reach that end is good for NVO supporters.

But I am just going to ask this question publicly. Will the full Safenetwork be launched in less than 10 months?
If the answer is no then you shouldn’t have a problem with the direction. We get to be flexible and this is good for us. If you want to force us to be Safenet-only give us a reasonable time to work with because delays piss people off more than anything.


#1008

:clap:

Well said.

This is madness. Two kids who were in school uniforms for several years after the start of this project. I mean, jesus, the arrogance and lack of respect is really too much.

It is not physically possible for nemgun to have read enough documentation to have a qualified opinion (his reference to videos and podcasts makes clear he has not even LOOKED at the real info). It would take months of research to be able to make the kind of call you are talking about. The fact that you trust him says a lot about you too tonbi.

I was laughing about how immature the nvo team had been, but now I’m stunned by the pure, naive stupidity. If Nemgun is your god then you are in serious trouble because the guy doesn’t seem to know his arse from his elbow.

Tbh if I had invested I’d be contacting the SEC if a refund was refused. This is how regulations appear, through complaints. Bunch of very young kids driving themselves off a cliff. No one can save them. Best to move on and let them blow themselves up. Perhaps Alex will do the right thing and use the escrow he holds to refund investors who want out. If I were in his position that’s what I would do, it seems the only defensible course of action here. The other trusted escrows ought to do the same imo, most of them are smart enough to see through Nemgun if they read this thread.


#1009

Here’s your website:

A working proof of concept or Alpha will be created from the tools already provided by Maidsafe and then implemented on the latest testnets.