NVO Decentralized Exchange - Crowdsale


#465

Already stated they will do that. Giving MaidSafe an opportunity/ultimatum to work with them or they go elsewhere


#466

@tonbi @nemgun
Considering the existing decentralized exchanges out there, why do you think your NVO dex will standout among the rest?
Bitsquare’s volume for example barely touches 7000 USD (total volume about 24K USD).
On the other hand, BitShare’s decentralized asset exchange is barely scraping 4000 USD in volume of bitUSD/bitBTC (with a total volume of about 2M in the BITCNY/BTS pair).

Where do you think these projects are failing and what added value are you bringing to the table to be able to compete with poloniex (or at least huobi).


#467

I invite you to get out of the SafeForum and meet the different communities, it is trie that a lot of comments pointed to the fact that NVO relies SafeNet while it is still under development, usually they ask how will NVO implement the validator on an non existing network. It is normal to give ultimatums, it is normal to offer support and help.

About Bitsquare, you can check their FAQ and whitepaper, the orders are limited to 1 BTC, how do you want to attract whales and bigger volumes ? How could you do high trading un a limiting platform, while NVO won’t be limiting.

In the interview you will understand the vision of NVO, whoch is not limited to the DEX, but to all the cryptos, this is why NVO have chances to compete with exchanges like poloniex, i really invite you to check it.


#468

I don’t know if you guys know Alex, CEO of Coinpayments. He can verify that I am one of the biggest supporter of maidsafe.

You should check our slack. Every day we are defending NVO from criticism for using the Safenetwork. We tell them that we are flexible and we do have backup plans. It’s the ideal scenario for both NVO supporters and Safenetwork supporters.

In business, we can’t satisfy everyone hence there will always be people against us as well as supporters in any community.


#469

First, I think that question is funny itself because if you look at the current market, no one uses a DEX. Centralize exchanges monopolize all the volume. If we want to succeed we shouldn’t compare ourselves to projects that haven’t even succeeded in any way.

I believe the best execution method is to put great importance on other aspects of the project not just the technology behind it. Example conveniency.

It’s really convenient to trade and store assets in one place. Why would someone go out of their way to send and deposit on another exchange if they can just do it right on their multi-crypto wallet that has both storage and exchange?

By implementing two type of interfaces (simple and advance), we can support beginners and advanced users. When you are dealing with assets, it needs to be simple for people to understand because people are afraid of losing their money if things get too complicated. That’s why I am hiring a pro-team to take care of the UI/UX and not letting any single individual do it. Which is also something most crypto projects don’t do.

I am very confident in NVO. Even if it wasn’t decentralized the strategy would have succeeded alone. By adding decentralization, it’s even better for users.

This is the strategy just the product alone with no marketing or reserves set up for liquidity. That’s another topic that will take quite some time to explain. As long as the product is solid it should be able to hook up some whales/market makers as our first supporters that will provide liquidity to the exchange.

At the end of the day, people are still more afraid of using a DEX than a centralized one. If we can make people be afraid of using centralized exchanges over NVO then we will succeed. How to do that without making people read block of texts of advantages and disadvantages? User experience design is the answer.


#470

That’s precisely why I am asking, they were all created with the same objectives, and most traders are also aware of the risks of using centralized exchanges (mtgox, bitfinex, poloniex, all of them hacked, some others exit scammed, etc…) but even the most libertarian friend still uses centralized exchanges (while complaining about it), instead of using the existing DEX solutions out there.

Only by precisely identifying where they failed, you will know how to succeed.

So I infer from your answer that you think that their shortcomings is only convenience.
But there is another example that seems to challenge that, there is a very inconvenient and yet decentralized marketplace that is way successful than any DEX project out there: LocalBitcoins.com
They had peak volumes of 45,710,741 USD.

What about BTC-e? Its interface sucks ass, so awfully inconvenient to deposit and withdraw, and yet they are the 6th biggest exchange by volume in the world.

Remember @tonbi, you must validate your assumptions before executing, otherwise you will be wasting money and resources on the wrong solutions (for problems that may not even exist)

So again:

  1. Why do you think LocalBitcoins is way more successful than the existing DEX projects out there?
  2. What would make Poloniex and Localbitcoins users switch over NVO.
  3. What are the real reasons users choose the exchanges they choose?
  4. And why the hell people are using awful and inconvenient sites such as LocalBitcoins and BTC-e? What is their added value that makes them so popular?

UX is not just about nice GUIs, it is about researching the market and the motivator of its users as well.
Do a survey at least to see what is the most fundamental value that whales and traders appreciate about their platforms.


#471

I’m a linguist. I understand language barrier. Please, seriously consider hiring somebody with impeccable English and communication skills who is not just excited about the project, but who has perfect understanding of the technology and at the same time the ability to communicate this understanding. Correct spelling is very important in order to make a serious impression, including on forums like this. I’m not talking about a marketing monkey, but a serious public relations person.
Now:
What are the main technical differences between NVO, Bitshares and Bitsquare?
What is the actual, tangible invention or innovation that NVO brings?


#472

It sounds like it will get sorted out. Thanks for the info. I will go ahead and invest, I am rather excited about this project.


#473

I would like to also ask if your team is aware that the “Launcher” will soon be deprecated for a new paradigm that is called the “Authenticator”. It will not act as a proxy like the Launcher (which was a bit of a bottleneck) but instead let you interact with the network directly.

I watched half the video above so far and keep on hearing about the Launcher rather than the Authenticator

Also I’m very glad to hear you are such huge supporters of Safe and that you defend the choices you’ve made to build your dex around it.


#474

+1

I really hope you guys succeed. I think you might and that’s good enough for me :wink:


#475

Actually, there a single real DEX and it is bitsquares, but the problem is that it is too much complex and limits the users.
I don’t consider Localbitcoins as a DEX, it is more a marketplace with an escrow, they are not present everywhere, in algeria you can’t use localbitcoins.

This is a matter of reputation, they are active since a long time and they built a strong reputation, even if it they still have troubles with some customers regarding withdrawals.

1- Because localbitcoins offers the possiblity to exchange FIATs to Bitcoin directly, and one of the most popular demands regarding this kind of exchange is Paypal.
2- Regarding Poloniex, it is mostly an issue regarding the platform’s bots, because sometimes during bitcoin’s high/low phases, the bots linked to Poloniex slows down the platform.
Bittrex for example is newer compared to Poloniex, but they earned reputation because they sorted the coins, there are no forks or shitcoins there, and it was one of the first exchanges to add coins like Waves and the reçently strong coins.
One of the poloniex’s strengh was the support of XMR and ETH.
Now, could you please check the XRP wallets ? How many users would like to use NVO for Ripple ? How many developers would like to use NVO for their projects ?
About ripple, the 24H volume of Ripple is around $136M, if we can get about 40% of the volume, how many users will be interested to use our DEX ?
ie: if we have 40% of the XRP volume in the NVO DEX, it will bring around $80 USD Weekly, in means that the holders will get $1.120.000USD.
The crowdsale is around $2M, after two weeks all the holders get their funds back. Needless to say what will happen if they keep on holding them.
Most of the wallets are non official, you can check them, some of them are good, but NVO can do better.

Regarding localbitcoins, they don’t have a wallet, how about implementing them on NVO using the plugin system ? Both projects would benefit from it.

3- Reputation, innovation, the ability to add new pairs quickly. Because it is not easy to add a new coins and maintain them, there are always wallets on maintenance.

4- BTC-E is a fake volume, their code system is used as a support way by third parties platforms. Localbitcoins is popular because you can use a lot of different payment methods who are not supported by exchanges.

The wallets are customisable, anyone can either create a plugin, or a “mod” for the wallet, like a trading “mod”. We will work on the plugins to provide as much “mods” as possible for the different users, everyone will have the basic wallet, and then they could choose a special modes and switche between them.
The most important is the validator, as it will meet the ideas of everybody.

Effectively, we will try to recruit people with a minimum of development knowledge, and the required communication skills, not only for english, because NVO have to be international as it is decentralized.

The main innovation brough by NVO is its mixity, NVO won’t be a DEX only, but a complement to the blockchain projects. Not a way to get money out of fees, but a way to join projects together.
NVO isn’t a blockchain to be compared with other blockchains as it is not required, except to get more funds, regarding development, it is not mandatory to use a blockchain for a DEX.

It doesn’t change anything, what ever happens the most important is to get access to the network in a way or another, from there, you can work your own solution or adapt the existing one.


#476

Are you really allowed to even say things like this? Aren’t there rules against such marketing tactics

This can’t be legal or advisable, right? People can quote you right there and possibly go after you I’d imagine


#477

He is just trying to give out an example of a specific market that we can target. However, I do agree we shouldn’t be giving out any example calculations, as it could send the wrong message that is why you won’t see anything on the homepage, slack or whitepaper about potential profit or claims of profits.

Regarding the results, Nemgun is very conservative, while I am more optimistic and believe in a much better result.


#478

Everything seemed fine until I read this:

really?


#479

Legally they’re ok for now, (at least from a UK perspective), because we’re talking about an unrrgulated asset, not an official company.

Regulators don’t generally regulate crypto assets yet - usually only companies.

Giving estimates is ok anyway, as long as they aren’t misleading, though generally they should be checked out by a ‘qualified person’ to make sure communications are fair, not misleading, and risks are put front and centre with estimates only visible after potential investors sign a statement that they accept the risks.

It’s always wise to emulate fitting in with regulation as far as is practical to protect investors and make things easier if regulation is applied in the future.


#480

I was hoping you would recruit people with maximum development knowledge, not minimum, who would at the same time be excellent at public relations. I understand such people can be hard to find, but they do exist.

I’m a bit of a perfectionist myself and I would like to point out some bugs on the nvo.io site:

  1. The bar under “Crowdsale” on https://nvo.io/#roadmap still doesn’t reflect the fact that the crowdsale has started, even though I mentioned this on Slack earlier.
  2. The link to Yanni Bragui’s LinkedIn profile on https://nvo.io/#team (https://www.linkedin.com/in/yanni-bragui-830125143) doesn’t work.
  3. The link named “View the latest wallet demo” doesn’t work.

The following html validator output may or may not be considered important, but please take a look:
https://validator.w3.org/nu/?doc=https%3A%2F%2Fnvo.io%2Findex.html

I hope you understand that I’m not trying to be nasty. I’m interested in the project and maybe my comments will even do some good. Everybody makes mistakes, but not everybody is able to admit them, learn from them and fix them.
I’m sincerely wishing you all the best.


#481
  1. Communication problems/errors = PR/communication person will be hired after crowdsale. We don’t have time to be reviewing what each other is writing right now.
  2. Linkedin is acting weird we don’t know why. Yanni created a new account for crowdsale. He didn’t have one before.
  3. Where is that?

#482

I’m pasting the code snippet from view-source:https://nvo.io/index.html:
<div class="text-block-23">Open source wallet for storing crypto-assets. Keys are created client sided and never sent to any servers.<a href="#" class="link-3"> View the latest wallet demo</a>


#483

From a Trader´s perspective:

Traders need their orders fulfilled in split seconds not wait for 10 minutes. Markets are driven by the passion of man. This emotional energy wants and needs to be expressed in the trading platform. Emotional energy does not want to wait 10min for an order to confirm. It needs to be flowing without any interruptions all the time in low traffic and of course especially in peak times. If you could have a DEX working as fast or faster than Poloniex then that DEX would steal all the business from Poloniex, Bittrex etc.

So much negativity is produced when centralized exchanges freeze or slow down in panics. So much negativity is produced when hacks happen. People don´t want to experience negativity. If you offer a secure way for users (especially sharks and whales) to trade fast then you`ll win the race.

Users will be throwing money at you. No doubt in my mind. I would love to leave all the centralized exchanges behind as would many many others. Speed is the missing piece.

Now if this is something a DEX can really do I do not know and with conventional thinking probably not. But if you do solve this puzzle you´ll be rich and famous :slight_smile:

BUT I did not see any comments about this feature of speed in your recent answers. Maybe I misread or maybe you do not have a trading background so I hope you take this advice. If you cannot solve this problem then I would not spend any energy in creating yet another slow DEX.

Ignore this advice at your own peril :smiley:
(This is all my honest opinion of course)


#484

No, it is just an example. This why we will use the NVOS. Faucets are allowed everywhere in the world.

Yes, i said that we will help maisafe, this is why i am confident about this point. I am not talking about a copy/paste of SafeNet, if we go for this solution, it will be a tailor made solution, but only if MaidSafe doesn’t want to work with us, and if the other projects refuses our help too.
Regarding the roadmap, Maidsafe is delivering the Alpha 3, but the validator won’t be usable unless MaidSafe releases Alpha 6.
You remind me of Ton when i first told him that it is possible to finish safenet or to build a similar network, somewhere, it is like if people are telling me that they loosed faith in this kind of project, because everyone keeps telling that it is hard to do it. It is easy to do it, just keep on motivating MaidSafe and they will deliver SafeNet, just kick some butts from time time if needed. At least that’s what i want to do, and offer my support.

@DavidMc0

Effectively and it is legal everywhere in the world, i asked a lawyer in my company for a legal advise on this case.

@Sascha

Personally i am never satisfied, and i prefer to form and teach the team, it won’t be enough to recruit people only, they will have to be trained, and it will be better for the team cohesion.

Thanks for the bugs, actually we received updates from Ton using workflow, that’s why we missed some details, i really appreciate.

Yani isn’t linked to social medias at all, so Yani created a linkedIn, and gave it to Ton for fine tunings, then when Yani reponed it in Algeria, LN got pissed off and they closed his account.

Yes Sasha, don’t worry for that, as i said, thanks for pointing to that issues. However, i will miss you guys once the crowdsale ends, actually i am working 3-4 hours a day on NVO, but once the crowdsale is finished, it will be 8-10 hours daily, i won’t have a lot of time for the different social accounts, and i have my companie in algeria, hopefully i don’t need to sleep a lot, 4-6 hours.

@TaaviK

I know what you are talking about, and the emotional state when you do a x2 or x6. Regarding the speed, NVO will use 2-OF-2 addresses, which can require a single confirmation, as soon as we finish the specifications, i will explore the 0-conf possibilities deeper, i already have an idea but don’t want to talk about it right now.

I feel the trader there, so thanks a lot for the Advise, trading speed is one of the major concerns of the DEX, because we do not want the traders to miss bargains :wink: