NVO Decentralized Exchange - Crowdsale

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There is no exaggeration coming from us but miscommunication from Alex. The people I worked with are very capable and honest developers, so don’t start throwing accusations. We have been very open about everything, and we released the communication before Nick posted and suggested the maidsafe team was contacted several posts up.

So I would see our relationship at the moment being one of mutual support as opposed to an official partnership, although maybe/hopefully that will change i future as we all get further down the road with our solutions and get to know each other better.

Can I suggest you replace the partnership logo in your post with the SAFE Network logo which you can grab from our brand assets page: Providing Privacy, Security and Freedom | MaidSafe.

Everyone at MaidSafe very much support what you are doing and we’ll all be watching the crowd sale with interest, and we really look forward to working with you guys!

We also specifically requested that Alex double confirm with Maidsafe before updating our website so words don’t get twisted, and we worked with Maidsafe to quickly fix anything that may confuse people on our last miscommunication. I have also contacted Nick to see what happened because they supposedly approve of the context on the website according to Alex.

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You replaced it with the MaidSafe logo not the SafeNetwork logo.

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That message was referring to the blog post not the website. For the website we had Alex double check the content with Maidsafe through screenshots.

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@tonbi I’m very much behind your project and sympathize with the fact your project wasn’t greeted with any warm enthusiasm but was instead bludgeoned head on with sheer skepticism. That skepticism is not unfairly founded though as like I said before this community has been burned before. That said people should have a healthy amount of skepticism but also realize that not everyone is the same.

Ultimately I think things have all happened out of order. (This is not a judgment but constructive criticism that in retrospect you being capable folk, probably already know) Things could have been a little bit more clear and organized perhaps. On the community end you could have been met in a more welcoming manner to start then progress to polite decline of funding your propositions and making that vocal but in a way that doesn’t come off as trolling. I think some of your teams responses have been overly aggressive because you’ve been put on the defensive but please realize that when you use sharp words with other community members it makes us think differently about how level headed you all are. I support you but only if you guys can keep your cool in the face of opposition.

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388

Yes nemgun can be impolite and he doesn’t respond well to trolling nor does he try to mince words. We joke about how he is mediterranean, and they are very hot blooded . However, behind all that he is very capable and honest, and we trust his ability completely.

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I want to add that I don’t believe that NVO have done anything intended to mislead. I believe this is a genuine issue of wording. I have not seen any posts or actions that lead me to believe that the guys at NVO are anything but well intentioned, and the posts on this thread would serve us all better if they returned to discussions about the crowd sale terms and technology.

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@tonbi I support Nick’s and MaidSafe effort to build on top of the network and hope you can meet/ exceed the expectations of this community. But anytime you introduce yourself as having the ability to do something without supporting that ability, you will be met with opposition.

Let’s see you turn this challenge from the community into a success. Clean up your rep and let’s move on.

I see some good coming from this exchange of viewpoints for you and the community…now you need to build on it.

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Is there a way I could follow the development of the NVO wallet? I understand the validator is closed source for now, but the wallet is open, right? There is nothing on https://github.com/nvoproject/NVO-Project.

I also think you should update the roadmap on https://nvo.io/#roadmap to reflect the fact that the crowdsale has started.

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The wallet is just a demo so a lot of things still need to be done, and it is far from finished. After crowdsale we will try to work fast to develop the wallet and release it as open source and will update the roadmap.

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This is a miscommunication from Alex. I stand by what I said and agree with nemgun so that won’t be changed.

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@tonbi could you detail a bit more about how the validator would work on the SafeNetwork?
Also, how would the “validator” process the fees. Will it automatically convert the whatever currency to USDT and then to NVOS tokens in counterparty?

Then you mention that with NVOS (worth .99 USD) I can be redeemed to BTC on counterparty, but I must withdraw my NVOT to my wallet from counterparty to be acknowledged as a NVOT holder.
This is very confusing

Could you detail a bit more about the proposed mechanisms, tracing every step?
Thanks

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@nigel

Thank you for your support, it is really appreciated.
I was not impolite, its logical for me to answer like that, I am in a forum of development, when someone wants to make a criticism I accept it as long as it is in relation with the development or with How to manage the project. This is the kind of questions I am very happy to answer, while a guy like bigbtc turns the project into a cartoon, you see that the person knows nothing about development and still insult us by saying that we are incapable, it is not I who opened hostilities, this is an insult. If he was more professional, he would have recruited a developer or asked a developer to come and ask questions to see if our solutions were viable or not, that would have been much more interesting for everyone.

Even with regard to the brand NVO, it is very difamanous, and I assure you that many companies would have filed a complaint against the person, bigbtc has no evidence to the support and therefore these remarks are difamatory . I can not tolerate someone insulting a project for free. It looks like the bipbip cartoon and the coyotte, bipbip which is blue, would be NVO, and the coyote, bigBTc, which runs after bipbip without ever being able to catch it.

It is enough that there is a simple misunderstanding so that it engulfed in it, and it does not arrange anybody, I ignored its statements for 20 days, I won’t do it any longer, he tries to push Ton into a corner, i don’t want a bad atmosphere around NVO. After that, it is enough that Nicklambert speaks to see a change in his discourses, someone might believe he is part of MaidSafe.

And the sound goes far, I feel like seeing the hunchback (ephialtes) of the movie 300, that’s what I see. And his words are bad either for maidsafe or for nvo.

@nicklambert

Thank you for your support, and personally I appreciate very much what you do, I am in a sharing environment, I saw your github, once the validator is finished, I will try to make some proposals on github, This could help you advance a bit more on the project.

NVO has to work with all development teams, because NVO will not be a blockchain to who competes other projects, but more a support to them, so if you need anything, I would be very happy to share with you my experience. Quite even help you to industrialize the thing when the beta will be launched. Like, producing storage devices with the brand MaidSafe, which would be very interesting, recently I saw smart phone chargers that functions using solar energy integrated in backpacks, would be nice to add a specific maidsafe USB stick, it means that users of this kind of system will be able to farme and earn money with a slogan of the style “Now you can make money with your smartphones”, it is just an example, the project Maidsafe has many advantages and possibilities, that’s why he is the first choice of NVO. So if you need help, I am there, and will be happy to.

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396

YOU are making this into a cartoon, BigBTC has some valid questions, and all you do is evade and pull up smokescreens. BigBTC isn’t raising money, so he does not have to be professional, nor does he have to prove anything.

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I am sorry for not been present on safeforum to answer your questions, ton is in charge of safeforum, he would have asked me or Yani if he had troubles to answer a development question.
Personally i am in charge of Bitcointalk and Hackforums threads, i am a little engaged into reddit too : Reddit - Dive into anything

Regarding bigbtc, i haven’t seen any development question from him, only evaluations.

I want to apologies because we haven’t been available as we added new coins to the crowdsale, and we had to setup the APIs, synce the blockchains, all this without bothering the users on the website by bringing it down.

So, i am in charge of the validator’s development, please proceed and ask me questions about it, it is the best way to evaluate the project and to know if you can trust the team or not. Bigbtc you can do it too, but please, stay polite, do not try to pull down the project with your questions.

i writen the “cahier des charges” of the validator, i am fine tuning it, for now i am looking at the best way to implement nexus LLA for enhanced security and privacy of the transactions. For each trade request, the validator will create a random address and use it to create a multisig address with the user, this will enahnce the security for all the participants.
The problem is that if you keep using the same address for several transactions, one can retreive your publik hash, as fragments are sent for each transaction. Someone can then retreive your publik hash and derive a private key.
It is one of the most important security flaw for both centralized and decentralized exchanges. The solution is to use different addresses for each trade, and the validator can do that.

I though about the validator a long time ago, that’s why have portions of the code ready, but i never had the time to finish it especially because it requires a wallet and an API.

I tried to connect safeNet testnet, but i have been unable to use safeLauncher, for some reasons it fails to connect, i didn’t tried to debug it because i have a lot of things to do regarding the crowdsale and the project.

@piluso

@tonbi could you detail a bit more about how the validator would work on the SafeNetwork?
Also, how would the “validator” process the fees. Will it automatically convert the whatever currency to USDT and then to NVOS tokens in counterparty?

Then you mention that with NVOS (worth .99 USD) I can be redeemed to BTC on counterparty, but I must withdraw my NVOT to my wallet from counterparty to be acknowledged as a NVOT holder.
This is very confusing

Could you detail a bit more about the proposed mechanisms, tracing every step?
Thanks

1- How the validator would work on the SafeNetwork ?
Safenet will be used as a storage solution for the different elements who are going to be used by the Validator, actually it is inconvenient to work directly with safeNet because of the resets. This is why during the development it will be hosted on a server, once maidsafe is stable enough, the wallets will act like safelauncher, providing access to safenetwork, from there, the Validator will be fully decentralized.
Sadly for now there is no distributed computing, but i am sure MaidSafe will provide a solution soon, some different projects are actually providing support for this feature.

2/3- The validator will create orders to convert the currencies to Bitcoin, as in the logic of the validator, he will sub-create a vendor, a B party, he will be his own customer, it will be the same logic as if it was human and human trade.

Everything will be indexed in Bitcoin, all the fees will be converted to bitcoin.

Example:

The validator detects that you have NVOT into your NVO wallet. He will then send you redeem scripts for NVOS.

Then you have this calculation :

Let’s say that you own 50% of the NVOT supply.

Let’s say the exchange does a daily volume of 50.000.000 $. In Bitcoin.

It means 350.000.000 $ over a week. In Bitcoin.

The maker, and taker pays 0.2% each, which means 0.4% fees.

The total collected fees will be 1.400.000$. In Bitcoin.

NVO will keep 700.000$ (50%). In Bitcoin.

NVOT holders will keep the other 50%. In Bitcoin.

If you have 50% of the NVOT supply, it means that you will receive 50% of the 700.000$. In Bitcoin.

You will receive them as NVOS, these will be bought back by NVO at a fixed rate of 0.99$, you will have the same amount in Bitcoin, and this operation is still legal.

The amount of NVOS created will be proportional to the amount of fees collected in USD with a fixed rate of 0.99$/NVOS.

NVO will buy back the NVOS to feed the Validator and distribute the fees.

This process will be done manually untill the Holders have enough trust into the platform, then it will be automated. A voting system will be used to determine wether it is time to do it or not.

Please, feel free to ask more development questions, i will answer with pleasure.

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398

Wow, this Reddit thread though

What are people’s thoughts on it

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Hi Tonbi,

I was just thinking that what is needed is a decentralised exchange and here you are doing it! Wonderful stuff.

I am keen to invest in the ICO - but I wonder what the value of the ‘coins’ you will be offering for investors will be?

If the exchange is to make profit from the 0.2% trade fees, where does all that money go? Back to the developers? Or does it go to the coin holders?

If the exchange is truly P2P then it seems a coin would have no intrinsic value unless there is a partial profit share allocated to each coin from the revenue generated by the exchange.

What will give the NVO coin actual value?

Look forward to hearing from you.

best,

S

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The thing that stood out most for me was @nemgun calling people trolls when they ask questions / describe risks of the system. Please don’t call people that

We all just want to help SAFE

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I answered a lot on this thread, especially to the imaginary provocations, it would be good if you have the patience to read all the answers because i explain many things. because of his imagination, we had to turn around the world before getting to the essencial points, however, he is an excellent troll because finally he started to ask interesting questions, and i appreciate that.

Hi Tonbi,

I was just thinking that what is needed is a decentralised exchange and here you are doing it! Wonderful stuff.

I am keen to invest in the ICO - but I wonder what the value of the ‘coins’ you will be offering for investors will be?

If the exchange is to make profit from the 0.2% trade fees, where does all that money go? Back to the developers? Or does it go to the coin holders?

If the exchange is truly P2P then it seems a coin would have no intrinsic value unless there is a partial profit share allocated to each coin from the revenue generated by the exchange.

What will give the NVO coin actual value?

Look forward to hearing from you.

best,

S

Thank you for your interest and for supporting the idea.

First you have to be familiar with the concepts of fees in exchanges, you have the buyer and the seller, each one will have to provide 0.2% fees for each order, which means that a fee rate of 0.2% results in a total of 0.4% per order.
You can say simply that 0.2% will go to the holders, and 0.2% will go to the NVO team.
The 50% recovered by NVO will be used to pay the wages of the Team, to enhance the project, setup a “black wallet” in case of an issue due to NVO in order to refund people, marketing investments to drive more volume to the DEX …

The NVOT value will depend on the performances of the DEX. This process have been setup in order to let NVO be legal and to protect the coin from dumps and manipulations because its value is really interesting as you will get a return from it. So, the more volume goes into the NVO exchange, the higher will be the value of NVOT.
The NVOS will be fixed at 0.99$ what ever happens, it is the supply who will change proportionally to the amount of fees.

In case someone doesn’t want or can’t sell his NVOS for any reason, he will still be able to hold them, the value won’t change, so holders have enough time to exchange their NVOS for Bitcoin.

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A troll for me, is someone who insults people, he went to slack and insulted the team, he threatened Yani while he apologied because ton deleted the post on reddit as he wanted to redirect him to us. Yani apologied several times, he even asked him for his skype or phone number to apologies personally.

That wasn’t questions, he imagined scenarios without understanding the project, please read the comments to the end, you will understand.

He suggested how to work on the validator with non-solutions and imaginary solutions who have nothing to do with development.

Savage

@tonbi what is your deadline for deciding against using the SafeNetwork for the validator, it is my understanding that Waves is your back up option should there be delays to network launch.
Do you have a “date” in mind that will trigger the decision to move to Waves?
If my understanding is incorrect please clarify.

As i am in charge of the validator, i will answer your question.
First, i want the development to be as fast as possible because i don’t want to wait for the developers or to delay the schedule. This means that we will do it in 4-6 months, in case of any problem. If safenetwork isn’t ready untill there, we could use Waves or Radix while SafeNet is under development, if none of the alternatives are possible, i will use my own solution, who will need an additional 4 months, as the validator is halfway of a blockchain and a website, without been either one, so i can enhance the blockchain-like portion of the code to release it as a full blockchain who will access ressources and hardware of the users and add its own P2P network.

But before realising a new blockchain, i will ask the permisison from the MaidSafe team to work with them, as it is their own idea, and i totally respect that, and love their idea.

Understand that we don’t want to loose too much time on the validator development and deployment, because a lot of people are awaiting for it, and we are eager to work on the plugin system.

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I think many of us here are concerned with loyalty to the safe network as it is what we believe in and SAFEX (the first exchange for safe) pivoted away from the safe network because of development delays. It’s a hard thing to ask of a project to delay launch but also hard for supporters of safe to fund something they believe may pivot away from the safe network. The safe network portion of the NVO exchange is what I find most exciting but I’m sure that’s why there is so much emphasis on that!

I hope everything is in place on safe to run in parallel with your development and I wish your team the best of luck, I mean that sincerely :slight_smile: stick with SAFE and I’m sure we’ll all be happy in the end

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