NRS Pre-Registration and Sale

[damon]

What is NRS?..

[neo]

Name Resolution System

[Traktion]

@JimCollinson

This kinda returns us to this thread too, as something that would need to be resolved first before we decided to do some sort of pre-sale scheme.

(sorry, terrible unintentional pun)

Yes, but I’d say whatever is chosen will still require distribution of the primary name (google, amazon, etc). In this thread I am more concerned with fraud/squatting/funding that the ordering.

Edit: granted, it would impact the decision to remove TLDs though!

[JimCollinson]

I could see the logic of blocking existing TLDs if we are sticking with the existing proposed scheme, as that would be a massive open goal if a malicious actor got, say, the .com.

I think the alternative order really sorts that nicely.

However, with either scenario, I think blocking/burning a set of names to avoid impersonation could be a fraught exercise. Where would it begin and end?

[happybeing]

I don’t think there’s a good solution to this - for example reversing the order makes it easy for anyone with a popular name to stick a TLD after it, so I don’t think that solves this either.

We could switch to using ‘/’ or another character to separate subnames instead of ‘.’ but it won’t stop someone grabbing ‘safe://google’ etc. The problem might be mitigated a little, but it doesn’t solve it.

The only benefit to pre registration I can see is the ability for Maidsafe to sell those names to fund development and marketing, but this could also be fraught so best avoided unless needed.

[JimCollinson]

@happybeing

I don’t think there’s a good solution to this - for example reversing the order makes it easy for anyone with a popular name to stick a TLD after it, so I don’t think that solves this either.

Yeah, it’s not a solution to malicious use or mistaken identity of a single name, but it does stop an individual being given the latitude to do that with every possible “name” for the cost of a single “TLD” so somewhat a reduction in risk IMHO, along side the (as yet untested) improved usability hypothesis.

[happybeing]

Sure Jim, I accept there is mitigation but it doesn’t seem significant to me, and not a good argument for reversing a convention and going against user expectations.

NRS names are going to be very cheap.

[JimCollinson]

@happybeing

and not a good argument for reversing a convention and going against user expectations.

Although I’m postulating that it does the opposite… i.e. users will expect name.otherthing and that’s a reason enough to do it (although that is covered in detail in the other) and that it has other benefits too. thread.

[TylerAbeoJordan]

Possibly could turn convention on it’s head only for the developer and not the user by having the browser show the bottom level domain as the top …

So com.news.google shows as news.google.com

Quite ‘hacky’ of course.

although, and again, I not in favor of NRS unless there are multiple NRS’s … and even then tags would be better still.

[happybeing]

I’m not sure that’s true, but my point is that the pre registration isn’t IMO a good reason to reverse. By all means let’s debate reversing the order, just not conflate them.

[bochaco]

@TylerAbeoJordan

so why do we give them some sort of first preference to dominate the scene?

I’d also like to understand this, I don’t understand why some people think that’s fair (I mean, if it’s not about making some money for the foundation/company/project)

@TylerAbeoJordan

So search for “amazon” and “commercial”, find the site you want and bookmark it.

I believe that’s what we are all doing already, I don’t remember any domain name, not even the one from this forum, I have a bookmark, so I don’t see the NRS names being so much different after SAFE is massivelly used and all nicest/short/easy-to-remember names are taken, do we (people) realy care about these DNS names anymore in reality? we even use specific apps for many things we do, so not even visiting sites on a mobile unless you are searching, if not you have an app or a link somebody gave you thru an app

[JPL]

I’ve just done a quick DDG around and allocating domains seems to be a tricky issue for all decentralised projects. Not sure if anyone has cracked it yet. This article by Handshake on Medium mentions early attempts by the likes of Namecoin which failed to gain traction. Handshake aim to provide an alternative to DNS but it is also compatible with it. They have set aside the top 100,000 domains (google.com etc) for the current owners to claim. If they buy them they can redirect straight to the existing DNS servers or there are other secure blockchain options which I haven’t looked at in depth yet - I’ve just skim read the article. Other domains will sold through a system of sealed bid auctions for a year after launch.

Handshake is designed to work with the exisiting internet so it’s a different use case from SAFE, but there may be some ideas we could borrow.

[Traktion]

@bochaco

I’d also like to understand this, I don’t understand why some people think that’s fair (I mean, if it’s not about making some money for the foundation/company/project)

If maidsafe don’t do it, less scrupulous people will. The least worst option is for maidsafe foundation to do it and be as unbias about it as possible.

Turning it around, it is also a great opportunity for maidsafe to gain investment and bring new firms into the loop. A decent administration fee to confirm the buyer is who they say they are, to manage the risk, etc, would go a long way to being a positive outcome.

Domain names are still huge business and the best are indispensable. Whether it is for web, email, security, DNS is still critical to businesses. We would be niave to think otherwise, especially as they exchange hands for big money.

Sure, have great search and bookmarks, but don’t ignore name resolution.

[bochaco]

Right I get that if you use it for funding the project/foundation/company, but wouldn’t that be going against the main principles of what you are funding? and what I meant was that even in such a case, why is it only google can claim and get an agreement with the foundation/company/project to acquire that safe://google NRS name? is that fair? why?

[zero-ghost]

Reserve the top 100 biggest company names for 5 years after the network is live… if those companies don’t claim them or show interest open them up to bidding, and be done with it…

The harder you think about it beyond that the stupider it will all get.

[happybeing]

I think the argument isn’t only about ‘fair’ and I’m not a fan of pre registration at this stage, but I think a strong motive among those who are is to minimise deceit - such as putting up a website that pretends to be Google related but is not.

I agree with the principle but I’m not convinced it is practical or a good idea for Maidsafe to try and implement it.

[zero-ghost]

Also, my previous idea about this topic:

I've got the whole "Domain", "DNS", squatting issues completely and undeniably solved

So I don’t do any programming so stick with me here through the logistics of it. So my idea is based primarily on how the i2p network does it’s version of domain registration and “ownership”. If you don’t know how i2p works and how they manage DNS truely p2p, you should stop reading here and first go and learn how that all works. So, that being said. Just quickly, in summary no one actually owns any “domain” name. Anyone would be able to create these “lists” (subscriptions in i2p) of “domai…

[JPL]

@zero-ghost

Ideally these lists would be mutable so that anyone could easily transfer or just delete their ownership of a name in any given list.

I don’t know how i2p works but I’m pretty sure on SAFE domains are non-transferable as a necessary tradeoff for having perpetual data.

[Traktion]

@happybeing

I think the argument isn’t only about ‘fair’ and I’m not a fan of pre registration at this stage, but I think a strong motive among those who are is to minimise deceit - such as putting up a website that pretends to be Google related but is not.

I agree with the principle but I’m not convinced it is practical or a good idea for Maidsafe to try and implement it.

Exactly! Imagine safe://hsbc, safe://citibank, safe://HMRC, etc. If the name space ends up filled with fraudsters, extortionists, trying to make money at other’s expense, it will not be a safe environment at all.

I say that is turned to an advantage instead, so those gains are put towards developing the network.

[Traktion]

@zero-ghost

Reserve the top 100 biggest company names for 5 years after the network is live… if those companies don’t claim them or show interest open them up to bidding, and be done with it…

The harder you think about it beyond that the stupider it will all get.

Auctioning off unclaimed names would be a good idea to extract maidsafe from managing them in a mature network.