NRS Pre-Registration and Sale

The person who registered the name, presumably? Perhaps a marketplace would be needed, but trading names was mentioned as possible in the recent NRS thread.

… It needs to be communicated clearly that the naming system is more like a plug in… If all names are reserved by some idiots one can just upgrade to the naming system v01 where the resolution algorithm does hash(some website name)+1 or v02 where the resolution algorithm does hash(some website name)+2

And it should be done in early network versions so squatters get frightened off…

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So how do you prevent the sort of automated registration of every word in the dictionary that @intrz brought up? This seems to be a tricky problem. You don’t want to prevent people with very few funds having a place on the network, but at the same time you have to guard against exploitation by bots. Ideally this should all be automated and decentralised, but how you do that that is unclear, to me at least.

A minimum price would be a simple solution. It wouldn’t take much cost to put off name registration spammers. It could be a put price multiple to make it cheap for genuine buyers, but expensive for speculators. An equivalent to a few cents or so may even be enough.

Naturally, the fee would go to farmers and maidsafe foundation as per normal.

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Just thinking out loud, but maybe registering a name could be tied in with an incentive to run a vault. The network needs to grow quickly as we know, and perhaps if we can give vault owners first dibs at a domain that would be an incentive to run one. It would also provide a ‘hurry hurry hurrry’ marketing opportunity. I think we need to generate some sort of scarcity, and a periodic auction or lottery of domain names could provide that.

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That’s exactly how I started thinking and writing this: Fresh safecoins from farmers

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No, if Maidsafe does it, then it will be the defacto NRS and hence will enforce monopoly control of names. If others do it, then there will be multiple NRS’s and search won’t rely on any one of them - so no monopoly control of names. So it makes a difference for sure if Maidsafe does it, but not at all in a positive way for the network IMO.

I strongly believe you are being way too optimistic with regards to corporate adoption. I do think corporate adoption for storage may happen over time, but not for websites - that will take many decades.

They are not indispensable on a new network - they are used because they exist - if your company doesn’t get the name then someone else will - so it becomes a necessary evil. If no defacto NRS, then it’s no longer necessary to get a name - in fact if multiple NRS’s emerge then there can be an unlimited number of companies using the same name - so companies will no longer rely on NRS - they’ll use tags and search instead.

Yes, this seems reasonable - it’s like multiple NRS not a defacto NRS, so doesn’t grant monopoly control.

ownership may not be deletable, but updating a pointer is still possible.

But can’t you see that even the existing monopolists can (and sometimes are) fraudsters? What you are saying is subjective. And giving them perpetual ownership is the real risk.

It’s going to be labeled that IN ANY CASE. The governments/oligarchs of the world and the presstitutes that work for them are not going to play nice when speaking about the Safe Network. It’s going to have a black eye out of the box and not for any technical reason.

… only if there is a defacto NRS … which would bring with it the whole headache of managing auctions.

Someone with a lot of safecoin could still easily buy up a huge number of names. I’m not personally against squatting if there is to be a defacto NRS and may do this myself as a business model.

Corporate favoritism - and it’s playing god. Is this the way of the humble ant?

Presumably Maidsafe will hand that task off to a company to mange (sooner or later) … I’m sure nothing bad will happen (sarcasm).

But you do confuse it … as the URL bar IS a search bar in any case - you are just searching a DNS database that’s been ranked according to a first-past-the-post philosophy (the first one to buy the name wins all).

All well and good if there is no defacto system, but if Maidsafe is running/managing the show then squatters are inevitable IMO.

How is this any different? Philosophically it’s still a first-past-the-post winner take all method. You’re just making it more difficult to get past the post and hence ceding more power to the established monopolies.

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Now I understand your resistance. You any many others, I suspect!

I am on mobile, so can’t respond point by point, but not having a defacto naming system will be to the detriment of the network, imo. It would also render NRS pretty much broken from the start.

People advertise their sites - should they put XOR url on cards and read them out on radio ads (random letter long strings)? Do they say just search for us and then hope they are found? How do they quote their wallet address? How do they asked to be messaged?

NRS is useful for many reasons, as long as it doesn’t get abused from the start.

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Advertising changes over time of course. Today we see URL QR-codes all over the place, so easy enough to give a direct link. Radio as it stands won’t do it, but podcasts can use QR-codes too and podcasting is quite possibly the future of radio. Otherwise, yeah, just use your name, and tell people to search with an algo that will allow the site to come up.

My point is that it IS ITSELF an abuse from the Start - as it grants monopoly power over specific common words/names. On SAFE it’s even worse because ownership would, most likely, be perpetual as opposed to the clear-net where they expire.

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According to the RFC of the NRS the names in safe will be published AppendOnlyData (versioned) so once created, as far as I understand, they can never be deleted or transferred. So I’m not sure that anyone could monetarize these names by selling them.

Another thing are the security problems or phishing that could be generated.

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To me it is to early for someone to invest $10k into nice domain, when SafeNetwork is not widely know around the world and working. The price of dot com also developed since beginning of Internet. Who would buy dot com domain for $10k 25 years ago ? Or dot tech today ?

Which is exactly the power you hope to exploit by pre registering the names yourself.

I would rather trust the maidsafe foundation to do right for the network and it’s partners, than random folk trying to make an easy buck.

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So can a name registeration be transferred?

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Transfer the account they were created in, is the easy solution.

I’ve commented on this topic at length two times prior.

The only decent SAFE solution is to publicly reserve all single words in the dictionaries of all online languages in addition to the other common domains already used like ‘org’ and ‘gov’ or country codes and publicly traded corporations. The private keys get published as the sites ‘version 0’. It becomes a public commons where groups can battle over what is published there, analogous to a wikipedia page with no censorship/lockdown. The actual version of the site that is viewed by default in the SAFE browser doesn’t necessarily need to be the most recent, but instead the version with the most ‘likes’ or ‘upvotes’. This serves as a constant stream of PUT income for the network. It would be an interesting social experiment to see what evolves. Posting the private key publicly is essentially a form of public burning that is readily proven. This is the most fair method that maintains a common de facto NRS standard.

tldr; broken record…
Because of the safe://service.name structure of the NRS, anyone is free to call their service as common dictionary words. Their public name would only need to be unique.

For example ‘safe://awesome.happybeing’ or ‘safe://great.traktion’ would be fine to claim, but ‘safe://being.happy’ or ‘safe://happy.being’ or ‘safe://happy’ would not because the pubIDs are single dictionary words.

Yup, this is the crux of it. The primary purpose of the NRS isn’t findability, it’s communicability.

In other words, being able to put a unique, yet human readable and orally reproducible wrapper around a XOR address.

And remember, we have other tools in the chest for findability such as linked data. No reason that can’t be deployed alongside NRS to solve the that issue, even right in the address bar.

As a wee example, think of the combination of unique Handle, plus your free choice of Name you have on twitter and how that works.

I can have primary results returned by the free name along with other profile elements if needed—and then narrowed by a socially derived priority—and finally uniquely selected/addressed with the NRS address.

I might never really need to deal with the NRS part of things often, so if all I can get is @JimCollinson38826 for my SafeID it’s not really a big deal.

This is the starting point for our way of thinking about SafeIDs BTW, and could quite rightly be extended to any site/address.

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This is not suitable. The person selling the account can access the account and has the private keys to all in the account at the time of sale

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I was going to answer the same thing. We must also remember that every public site, including any name, must comply with the rules of the perpetual web where history cannot be altered.

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It seems there needs to be another layer of abstraction.

If I can, then I will … and you should thank me - as if I do it, I’ll plow profits back into the network - another entity might just do it for pure profit and take the money out/away from the network.

If true that names are permanently stuck to an account, then there is another problem I’ve just thought of as well – a malicious actor (say a rival corporation) could buy up names of competitors and then make the keys to the account public - effectively neutering the use of the name forever.

Further, If you were a government and wanted to seriously hamper the network, you do the same with a dictionary and large amount of cash. Effectively trashing the defacto NRS.

Easy do not suggest people ever do it.

The other is to allow the AD to have its ownership transferred which is promised. And simply transfer ownership of the AD which holds the registration info

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