Noob question. What prevents someone abusing the system?


#21

At the moment there doesn’t seem to be any specific suggestion in the RFC for implementing this.

At this time the only things I can see that contribute to the falling off of earnings is that small vaults lose out on the opportunity to serve data because of their small size yet they still contribute to all the caching, routing, consensus etc. For the “oversized” vault I am not sure, until it reaches a point where it is serving up so much data that the bandwidth becomes an issue. (this is true for 0ne large or equivalent in overall size multiple vaults)

for the oversized vault compared to an average vault, they will fill at similar rates so then their earning ability is similar till the average vault is “full” after which the oversized vault then has more chunks thus more earning capability. How long does it take to fill an average sized vault though? So the disadvantage to the oversized vault is that they waste so much potential earning, they would be better off running a number of average vaults and thus contributing more to the network (multiple nodes -caching, consensus, routing, etc)

At this time (& current RFC) the reason Joe is better off is that Joe isn’t being charged anything to run the average vault because it is spare resources. But Dave using the Dwarf’s data centre is also using spare resources but is 3 billion years away in space. Now Dave the data centre owner has to pull resources away from earning $$$s elsewhere to use for the SAFEnetwork and also has to pay the aircon, electricity, staff, building rental and all the other expenses. It might not even be profitable considering the rate of coin earnings and expenses. Let alone the earnings he loses because he pulled the resources away from earning real $$$s from people using the datacentre


#22

so someone with an under utilised datacentre is potentially in a very good position?


#23

Yes for serving data.

Maybe yes and likely no for earning more than it costs.

The underutilised datacentre is better off offering deals for people to try the centre, like half price for the 1st month.

Or even turning off the equipment and save on the electricity costs (mains, battery backup, AirCon, etc) might be a better cheaper solution. Aircon is a major expense of the equipment being on unnecessarily.


#24

Not sure… 1-10 gbps isn’t that expensive anymore.


#25

@neo: Doesn’t really work like that. You can’t power down lets say 80% of your dc and expect to use 80% less cooling. Without proper airflow, your remaininig servers will burn.


#26

This is what worries me here in little old Australia where most of us are still on 1Mbit/s upload speed and some on 2Mbits/s upload and the lucky ones on the infamous NBN on 40Mbits/s upload (if they can get it)

No matter, we cannot hope to aspire to the 1Gbits/s upload that many in Europe can get.

Oh well, we’ll have to rely on location, oh dang thats right we are at the arse end of the world too.

Ah the old misunderstanding of aircon. You may not save 80% of aircon cost when powering down 80% of equipment but you do save most of it. WHY? aircon compressors (most expensive part of aircon) are not always on, they are only on when cooling is needed, so since you are generating 80% less heat the aircon has less heat to remove and thus the compressors are on less time thus less energy required.

Aircon is a heat pump and the work it is required to do is mostly removing heat. The heat in the datacentre is made up mostly of the equipment and the atmospheric heat input that gets past the building insulation and other minor heat sources. Aircon energy is a combination of the air movement fans and the compressors and other very minor components (senors/plc/etc). You are right in that its not 80% savings but it is actually quite high (40-60%) and certainly needs to be factored in. Did I say 80% savings in aircon, I thought I just said saving in aircon costs without specifying the amount, sorry if I did.


#27

Believe it or not, I practically live on top of one of the fattest backbones around (ams-ix) but I can’t get more than 50 mbps down and 10 up in my house so for any decent bandwidth I have to rent dc space like anyone else :frowning:

It doesn’t make sense to power down equipment. You can get away with powering down a little bit, but not too much. Nowadays DC’s are cooled using cooling alleys, which are very sensitive to equipment placing and if you just power down randomly without spreading the airco load you’ll be left with deadly hotspots. Cold air that comes through the floor will mix with the stale air that has nowhere to go. Nowadays DC’s are very dense, and computer equipment gets very hot, the old days of stacking pizzaboxes on top of each other without thinking and cooling it to 17 degrees celcius are over. The last DC I worked at, operated at about 25 degrees celsius inside the cooling alley, and around 40-50 behind the racks.

It’s a complex topic that I can’t really explain in a single post (and it’s 4 am here so I apologise if I don’t make sense :wink: )


#28

They’re all at https://safecrossroads.net/safe-network-school/

If you go through the series of 10 episodes, especially if you follow in the wiki and use the glossary linked there, you’ll get a really good idea of how the network functions. A few things have changed a bit, as improvements, but what’s there is a great place to start.

Also, of course, all the other episodes at safecrossroads.net are worth listening to, if I do say so myself (and I do since I made them :wink:) Would be happy to receive any feedback on your experience so I can do refinements in time, and perhaps address blanks with new podcasts.


#29

And this was included in my main point for the operator to rent out the equipment. The only reason to shut down equipment is if it cannot be used and might even be cheaper than using it for vaults. But we just don’t know yet because they might make more as vaults than being unused. Oh yes I know about cooling alleys and rack cooling since the 80’s when mainframe cooling was being optimised depending on equipment use and the design of cooling systems. :wink:


#30

Arg IBM Mainframes. There isn’t any better way to completely ####up a carefully planned coolingstrategy. We’re IBM, and all your floorspace are belong to us. At least HP has the decency to fit in a rack and cool in a logical and controllable
way…


#31

Never spent much time in an IBM datacentre. I did fall asleep in one once though while loading mag tape - quite a boring process.

Preferred DEC Systems, shame they took the stand that PCs were not the way of the future and failed being bought out.


#32

Nevertheless I think this is an important discussion to prevent centralization like bitcoin. Because if we stop looking for ways to game the system in any way, someone else will. Miners have invested tons of money in gpu’s/asics so it’s not unthinkable that people like us with a datacenter skillset will setup huge farms if it’s profitable.


#33

can the allocated storage space be corrupted by formatting ?


#34

Any corruption within the vault (or formatting) will result in any returned chunk as being invalid and the network will reject this. Every chunk is crypto signed and easy to detect corruption.

Also formatting your drive will wipe the vault and the vault software will not be able to access anything.


#35

So the maid safe coins will turn into safe coins once the network launches? This will happen automatically?


#36

Might be automatic for those with coins on exchanges, hard to say. For the sensible people who hold their own private keys, they’ll probably need to send the maids to a burn address to have the safecoin sent to their safe ID, but there will be very clear and simple instructions for the conversion process when it finally comes, so I wouldn’t worry about it.


#37

Right. So who is selling maid coins at the moment? Which exchanges?


#38

You can buy MAID on any of the big crypto exchanges like Poloniex or Bittrex. That’s probably the best way to buy them in terms of fees etc, although you can always just use shapeshift or something like that.

As you can see from this list, most people use poloniex


#39

So I can send maid coins to my bit coin address and view them on omnichest.info ?


#40

Yep exactly. Also send a tiny bit of BTC with your MAID (couple of $s worth) because you’ll need that to pay the fee to move them on from there and it’ll save you time and hassle when the time comes.

You can view at:

http://omniexplorer.info

Or “import address only” (without private key) in omni wallet and you will also see them in there with fiat value. Although you can’t send them on until you import the private key ofc.