New Tokens on SAFE


#1

Don’t know if this has been discussed somewhere else, but I’m wondering if there’s any guideline about how to issue a new token for a DApp on top of the SAFENet?

I’m asking because we are working on an idea about decentralizing live streamings on the SAFE. So basically, video publishers pay tokens to the streaming nodes to do all the heavy lifting works. But those who want to be the streaming nodes have to stake their tokens, for the system to prevent sybil attacking.


#2

Why not just using SafeCoins?


#3

Well, the tokens also means voting tickets for later dapp updating/upgrading, and all kinds of governance stuff, among other things.


#4

Decorum is looking to implement tokens called Clikes on the Safe network - if you search for this, some concepts should come up. I’ll add a link once I have time!


#6

Yeah, I’m aware that ethereum platform’s good for customize tokens, but I think for this specific app we are designing, some of the features of SAFE look very promising, like the data distribution, routing, and the close group consensus for aligning the output results etc. Actually, there’s already a project called Livepeer built on top of the ethereum, but I think they’re having bigger hurdles than what we’re facing now. But advises are always welcome :slight_smile:


#9

Is this the piece you were talking about?


#10

You don’t understand it’s technology, if you can’t tell the difference between Ethereum and the SafeNetwork, maybe it is really a waste of time for you.
But eventually you will get it in a couple of years when Ethereum starts choking with their own congestion alla Bitcoin.


#12

I’m a hardcore Maidsafe supporter and even I feel ever so somewhat/slightly bad about not making 1 literal million dollars on Ethereum if I held it instead. But Maidsafe will deliver, whether it takes months or over a year. And be 100x better. It’s all about beliefs. So take your vitriol somewhere else perhaps? You won’t be calm for awhile, so it’s pointless for me to say much of anything (and I gotta’ go to work right now), but patience pays off, and hopefully you can use your anti-us knowledge to help rather than hurt (if it’s truly worthy knowledge, of course).


#13

It is not really about beliefs, it is not a matter of faith.
It is about design. The SafeNetwork as conceived will never face any kind of scalability problem, it is in its DNA. The Ethereum network is not scalable, they may attempt to fix it but the only solutions they will find eventually realize that the blockchain is a bottleneck for scalability.

Decentralized != Distributed.

And if we have something to learn from the design of the current internet, is that the more resources it consumes a decentralized system tends towards centralization.
To be fully decentralize, you must be fully distributed.


#14

Also, this is a good interview where we talk about such.


#15

That’s the one. Hopefully that plus Fergish’s podcast will give some good ideas for your application.


#16

This isn’t the way SAFEnetork will be working. There is not any “streaming nodes”.

The streaming will be coming from all the vault nodes** and the caching nodes that hold the content the end user is streaming. This one of the features of the SAFEnetwork, to spread the load across the “whole” network so that no one node is “ever” loaded down and the serving of the stream can involve parallel delivery if the streaming software preloads the stream.

** Remember that content is split and chunked then spread across XOR space so that in all likelyhood there will be no nodes in the network that hold more than one chunk of the content. And with 8 copies of each chunk there is in fact 8 vaults fighting to get the chunk to you the quickest.


#17

Thanks for getting back. The streaming nodes I’m referring to basically do 2 things. One is to transcode the video streams pushed from video publishers. And second is to distribute the video feeds. We definitely want to take advantage of the SAFE vaults’ data distribution and load spreading abilities for the second part. But for video transcoding, those nodes need to run our specific media server. Guess it’s kinda similar to the sidechain approach for the bitcoin.


#18

Great articles, am working on it. thanks @DavidMc0 and @fergish


#19

Not sure yet what would be the best way, but there are some discussions in these threads


#20

Ok, let’s kick this topic.

@dirvine
Are there any new ideas/plans for supporting other tokens (in the core code) on the SAFE Network? Because Safecoin must still be developed, and it’s not sure if it will be based on the MutableData type. See Next step of safecoin algorithm design
So the new Safecoin design might take this new token feature into account then.

Security Token Offerings (STO) can get really big. Would be really nice to have the abillity to support this with the SAFE Network. It’s probably the only fully permissionless network that can scale this with realtime transactions.


#21

The thing about tokens on SAFE is that most operations, and that would include token transactions, cost Safecoins. On the other hand, I think Safecoin transactions will not cost Safecoins so it will always have some advantage over any other tokens in this regard. It probably won’t be a very high barrier but I would still like if there was a generic layer to facilitate the creation and free transacting of user released tokens.


#22

What prevents me to create many token types and use them to flood the network with free transactions? Safe coin will have limiter for number of transactions per device. But if there is same limiter per token as for safecoin and I can use 1000x different tokens than I can submit 1000x more transactions. Nothing is free, and it requires complicated solution to enable free transaction for safecoin. Yes there can be shared limiter for all tokens but this was just an example why it is good to avoid free anything if it is not absolutelly necesarry for adoption. I am not sure that even free safecoin transactions are worth the complexity costs.


#23

Maybe I missed the memo that says the only way to implement limiting is on a per-token basis. Or maybe, just maybe, it would be possible to have that counter count and limit all such free transactions, like you said :wink: You’re right it’s not necessary for adoption, but it would sure be a a) nice selling point, b) useful feature.

I’m on the fence about this, by the way. Ethereum does charge for code execution and if Safe will have some sort of a shared computation feature that could be used to implement tokens, it could adopt a similar payment model.