Network protection against garbage

Hi folks!

How maidsafe will resist against network ‘flood’ with gabrage data from /dev/random.
Example:

  • server with 20Tb shared free space
  • create ID
  • upload 20Tb from /dev/random in maidsafe
  • remove ID
  • create new ID
    –repeat

Most of servers have 20-30Tb included, someone provide unlim (100Tb without problems with ISP).

In such case 5 servers x 20Tb = 100Tb/Month at least.

What you will do against that? Some kind of TTL for file?
Random chunk hash checking on client doesn’t work, becase you can store chucksId+hash and send it to node.

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Upload data is free in the actual Test but not in the real SAFE Network. You must spend Safecoin for PUTs.

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So it mean, when i share 20Tb, i can’t upload 20Tb in network for free. I must wait enought amount of safecoins, right?

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Yes. You earn safecoin for GETs (from others data that you store) and spend safecoin for PUTs (from your data that others store).

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Yes, but at the same time, if you’re uploading public files, you will get Safecoin in relation to how much users access it, I believe, unless I’m misunderstanding the economy design. But if I’m right what I mean to say is, if you’re uploading large amounts of valuable content, you will be repaid. Also, if you’re providing the network with resources you will be repaid.

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I think you’re wrong on that.

You pay to upload and you get rewarded for providing resources to the network. I’ve not seen any suggestion that there’s a reward for popular content, though the network might manage distribution of that data differently. The benefit of providing popular content relative to the network then is indirect, that in providing resources you would get greater reward and the network would become more popular and attract more support and resources.

Yeah I was thinking about the compensation for app devs, my bad. 4+ hours on a Shinkansen does that to you lol

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?

Safecoin is the currency of the SAFE Network and is a mechanism to incentivise and reward End Users and developers, as well as provide access to network services. Participants who provide their unused computing resources to the network, called Farmers, are rewarded in safecoin, while application developers, called Builders, earn safecoin in proportion to how much their applications are used.

source: https://safenetwork.wiki/en/FAQ

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@maxlele Have you looked into the whole pay the producer/Pay the Creator thing?

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You can earn Safecoin in three ways*:

1.-As farmer giving resources (space, bandwidth, computation) to the network
2.-As Apps. Developer creating Apps to the network
3.-As Core Developer helping the progress of the core system

*for the moment I forget the PtP since it will not be at launch

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I’ve been wondering about this. I got the impression somewhere that you can use as much as you provide (for free). Is that incorrect?

Dedicated servers. And target is: provide free -> get coins -> use bots to make content popular -> get more coins -> spend all to abuse system.

And im interrested about protection.

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I doubt its quite fixed like that but the reality will be similar - the difference will be the timing and state of the network.

So, you provide 1TB over a time and get safecoin as reward relative to that. Then you come to use 1TB and find its cheaper than the reward you made, because the network has expanded and also perhaps because the network doesn’t need 1TB to store 1TB… overlap of fragments and compression etc.

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I am almost a newbie here :slight_smile:
Since Steemit is going to be an important project to keep an eye on, I’d like to learn more about the PtP topic and its concerns.

Then why is it on the roadmap?

http://maidsafe.net/roadmap.html#network

And this takes caching into account how? Even if you have a bot that’s programmed to watch your own content all day (and keep in mind you have to actually load the content to actually get the GETS), at some point you’ll have gone through all your content and it’ll be cached and your bots will be useless. After the data is cached you don’t get additional GETs for it. You only get GETs for uncached data.

No, it’s a market mechanism so how much you can buy fluctuates.

There are two factors, how much you earn in Safecoin, and how much storage you can buy per Safecoin (the PUT cost). How much you earn depends on three things: the amount of and popularity of the data you hold, and the farming rate.

Both farming rate and PUT cost are adjusted automatically by the network to balance supply and demand.

So there is no fixed relationship between what space you offer to the network and what you can upload.

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@nikitasius:

Dedicated servers. And target is: provide free -> get coins -> use bots to make content popular -> get more coins -> spend all to abuse system.

And im interrested about protection.

We all are :slight_smile:, and for this reason PtP has been the subject of long and contentious debates on this forum (search “pay the producer” / PtP for example). There was no resolution and agreement though, so it is left to be tested out at some future date after the primary SAFEnetwork features have been released and working satisfactorily. Further debate is probably not going to get us any further, but if it concerns you there is plenty to read on the subject!

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The basic protection about your attack is the opportunistic cache. If you try to download the same data in a short time, these data will not be rewarded with safecoin because they will be stored in intermediate nodes.

Sorry but such simple questions have been answered dozens of times in this forum. Maybe is better you read first the Wiki or use the search.

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Actually you’re not wrong on this,

This is in the works. Called PtP or Pay the Producer (of online content).

It’s on the SAFE Network Roadmap. Very important feature for the viability of SAFE.

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To sum up what has been said

To put data on the network costs safecoin.

If you put massive amounts on the network to try and “fill it up” then the pricing algorithm will defeat you. As the network fills up the price dramatically rises to put data. So to completely fill it up you will find it costing huge amount for each put in the end.

As the put price increase the farming rate increases as well, but not as much so trying to get coin to keep putting is still a losing scenario and the impossible dream. Assuming the algorithms are reasonable. But it does attract more farmers.

Any pay-the-??? is at a much lower rate than farmers get. (one tenth) so more profitable for a “scammer” to simply farm than attempt to game pay-the-??? . Another reason is caching which will be tuned to both not use too much resources but to also prevent non-trivial gaming of any reward. As you increase the rate of gets so does the amount of caching. And remember the more content the more caching that is available as content is randomly spread across the network. Imagine all those millions of computers (nodes) with many mega bytes of caching each.

Remember payments for farming are based on spare resources and as such are not high. Much harder to game profitably and throw in caching and it gets even harder. You would be better off using your resource to game the advertising market out there as some already are. Mind you it still has not brought down the internet advertising market yet. And its more profitable.

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