Netflix: The Social Dilemma

I don’t see this as mass surveillance though, just to clarify. In the same way there is mass surveillance on the web i.e. all internet traffic being sucked up and snooped upon at a population level.

i’d say this is more a case of people might lower their guard on targeted surveillance.

I agree we need to do the inversion on PtP though. As much as I’m attracted to many aspects of it, I fear that is might actually end up amplifying sensationalism and clickbait to the detriment of reasoned discourse.

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Yes, that’s more exact way to put it.

My point was more to try to play devils advocate here instead of proving this spesific point. We could also ask “How could Safe Network be used to increase the power inequality in the World?” Now I don’t have any quick examples for this, but I think it might be good exercise for thought.

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I agree there will be unintended side effects, but they are as likely to be good as bad, and I think we can draw encouragement from Facebook and the old internet.

What screwed the internet, and Facebook which were both benign and very useful for years, was the shift to profit, particularly profit based on attention stealing (advertising).

The design of Safe is a response to precisely those problems, so I don’t worry that it will turn out badly. I can’t rule it out, but this is how we learn.

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I think this is the real risk to the SAFE project generally. We may not want to impose morality on others but that is not the same as having no morality baked in. We are going to throw the baby out with the bath water at this rate in our effort to ditch Surveillance Capitalism and we are going to make a new Silk Road (and whatever we personally feel about drugs and porn we can probably all agree that we don’t want to facilitate slave trafficing, Jihadis and hit men) . A previous thread used the provision of roads as an analogy. The suggestion was that we shouldn’t care what the traffic is on our roads. But we all want roads to be safe (no highway men) and we want the basic measures to be assured (so a Kilogram is a Kilogram)…

I don’t know what point you’re trying to make there… the air we breathe; the roads we use; etc, are shared resource. For all the error that is big thud and blunder wanting to control money with a move to cashless, the reality is that shared resources are not a good route to encouraging moral behaviour.

Some people have stupid morality… and wish to impose on others what they know is best. It is because of that kind of problem that a more robust solution is needed.

Also, one man’s [Slave trafficing, Jihadis and hit men] is another man’s Government!..

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These points bring to mind Clay Shirky: “It’s not information overload. It’s filter failure”.

Hopefully we can find a way to separate the filtering from the profit motive so we can have both a rich information ecosystem and avoid damaging consumption patterns. I feel a lot of the success of Safe will hinge on how the network might open new business models that enable positive filtering rather than addictive filtering. The current business model (backed by the addictive filtering) is a problem.

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Can you talk more about this in the Brainstorm how to end online tribalism/echo chambers thread? I’m unaware of this problem or terminology at least.

This dude talks about some of the problems brought up by Social Dilemma, that dont get the needed attention and other problems that are overexaggerate nearing scaremongering in it.

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Don’t have time to watch that right now, am curious though and will, comments seem to suggest the point is something like, censorship is the problem, not the structure of the thing, and we don’t need regulation?

In any case you remind me I wanted to post this: https://invidious.snopyta.org/watch?v=wyxnaaPqbRk point here is - regulation won’t work, we need free and open source software, to change how people think of software, copyright, etc. It is a really good watch.

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Can you tell me of a business or organization that DOESN’T try to manipulate human behavior patterns? Isn’t that the MO of marketing, advertising and politics? That is the manipulate the populace into doing exactly what you want, or at least to influence them in that direction. Even Maidsafe attempts to do this. Everyone has an agenda of some kind.

The problem isn’t that GAFAM have agendas. The problem is that they falsely pretend NOT to have agendas and lie about it and to confound the issue obfuscate it with algorithms no human being can possibly understand. Why not just be honest and admit that you’re willing to sell data, or advertising potential, to the highest bidder and conflate that by manipulating communication streams based on revenue potentials? “If your stream makes us more money we’ll give you a big ass megaphone! But if you cost us advertisers we’ll throw you in solitary!” That’s more or less the gist of corporate social media these days.

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4 posts were split to a new topic: Evil secret societies