My perceived issues with near future mobile vaults

At 8 to 23.99999 hours a day most mobile devices have little chance to become anything more than transient data tunnels due to the node aging restrictions of SAFE. How will something non profitable incentivise the average user? Not idealism. Global penetration requires that we provide good reason for the app to be downloaded, have the user wait through the installation, configure the vault (most people are impatient and lazy if not just in a rush), and then there is the visual and disk space it takes up in addition to the increased energy demand applied to the mobile device even while charging. Slowing the charge time of the mobile as the vault runs in the background if preconfigured to start when plugged in.

This will be an issue if the owner of a dying device can only charge a few minutes before relocating. Like on the bus or a quick stop at these new phone kiosks popping up all over the place. Even if the vault is set to activate when on home wifi, there will be times that the increased battery drain will keep the owner tethered to their charger longer if they arrive home but still want to remain short range mobile after a quick charge. The inconvenience of having to stop the app or configure it in the first place could be off putting. An algo will have to be developed to set a sliding door for activation of the app at the very least. Something that takes into account the usage patterns of the owner.

The app has to be extremely convenient and undisruptive to the owner. Working in the background similar to a system process. Leaving little to no indication of its presence until by some miracle, a SAFEcoin is earned. We should be able to grab our mothers’ phone, hit the play store, install it, and hand the device back. I would go as far as to program the app to create a default account until the SAFEcoin is earned. In which case the app prompts the device owner to set one up and automatically transfer the funds to the individualized account. We need this to be as smooth as butter if we are to achieve mass adoption and the resulting bulletproof security.

Am I overthinking this? Sound rediculous @maidsafe ?


Imagine that you have an old phone. Extremely low-power, yet powerful enough 4-cores processor and memory card with 64GB of space … Is it logical to let it be a farm? I personally have 3-4 such phones that are hanging around at home …

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Not really in my opinion.

Mobile devices will be a challenge, but they have said that they want them to be able to work. At this stage its the client side they are working on and lets face it we don’t have vaults on any device. I expect vaults on larger devices to be completed first while work in the background is done on mobile devices.

Ageing is the major issue as far as I can see. The other is the amount of storage.

Now by the time of release we will have at least 2 more versions of the popular phones and they typically have increased capabilities.

Also mobile devices includes tablets and they are more likely to be able to be left on charge for longer periods. Depends of the use of them. For myself its most days I can leave it on all day charge. All those workers at the office/factory that can leave their phones on charge during the work day.

It really is going to be a case of working the ageing algo to enable the use of them. Also we have to realise that some people can leave their phones and/or tablets on charge for the majority of the day and for some/most they have a limited time on charge most days.

My opinion also is that like games people play on their phones for hours on end (candy crush is one I see others play a lot) other people will enjoy letting their phone earn them extra “money” by farming and endevour to ensure their phones are charging the max time. It will be hardest for those who cannot do this.


If devices can have a role, a way to allow that can be found. It won’t be one size fits all IMO, but it’s simpler to start with a sound foundation, and we know this project is complex enough for now, so one step at a time :slight_smile:

It looks like the big long push up the hill is fine now, and things will gather momentum from here on, and as the foundation is proven, the refinements will begin to be prioritised too, alongside other bigger projects such as compute, decentralised OS, hardware, mesh etc.

But maidsafe won’t have to do all of this. Once the platform is proven we will see an influx bigger than blockchain and things like this will happen.


Allow me to wax speculative for a second. I agree with @neo that in a couple years we’ll see some pretty good improvements in mobile phones. Now that our current processors are topping out they’ll have to really innovate with things like 3D processors but I think batteries will be the next real innovation on the hardware side, be it solid state batteries or whatever. Then hopefully in the next 5 years 5G networks, which are something like 1000x faster than current 4G networks, will be pretty common, and latency on SAFE won’t be a complaint.

When setting up a mobile vault there could be restrictions or a window of time you enter where you know your phone will be plugged in and over WiFi and perhaps you can pick up where you left off, farming at your node age, assuming you’ve honored those parameters over time. So it’s more flexible than always being available because you can choose a window. In the next 5 years though when we have better processors, batteries, and high speed 5G networks, I bet this will be even less of an issue and maybe then a phone could farm all day?

Maidsafe could partner with a mobile phone maker (Silicon Valley style :wink:) and offer a mobile phone for cheaper if it has vault software installed on the device. That one I find a little less likely for many reasons but I won’t throw out possibilities. Maybe even a phone with little storage at all could be offered for even cheaper that uses the network as storage but that phone wouldn’t farm.

Anyways that is just a rant of some sensible and nonsensical possibilities.


These are all great responses. Thanks! I definitley considered all of this before I wrote the OP, but node age is VERY likely to leave the vast majority of mobile devices in the role of communication tunnels. The penalties for misbavior on the network are understandably harsh. As the network grows and becomes inherently more secure, ageing could dynamically adjust the rate at which nodes advance. Making it easier for mobile devices to recieve greater levels of income during the little time they participate in the network. PARSEC seemingly enables this option as groups can easily scale to greater numbers. Giving less power to a higher number of malicious nodes than the previous plan IIUC.

Mobiles in their current state have thier value even if they never go beyond age 1 by reducing the traffic burden of older nodes among other things. The UX is crucial if we are to take advantage of the benefits provided by the massive amount of mobiles. Special consideration should be given to this IMHO.

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Perhaps in the future, some roles will be found that can be very useful for small / temporary devices to perform, which will be specifically incentivised in future network versions.

Or perhaps elders will get some kind of ability to delegate tasks to temporary nodes who can be to a degree ‘controlled’ by the higher trusted node which can keep an eye on them, with the reward being shared by these delegates / subordinates who couldn’t be trusted without oversight.

Just random thoughts that may make no sense, at least at the moment, but the point is that if a huge, valuable, untapped resource exists in these devices, ways will be sought in the future to tap that resource & effectively incentivise it while maintaining security.