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I must say, is spent a fair bit of this ROTFL.

@dirvine your spelling and punctuation are atrocious, but your communication comes through crystal clear. Thank you.


From the article:

“Discreet maths is moving very fast, so the amount of work to solve these primes is way less than was thought possible when the RSA algorithm was created.”

I have read that it’s even worse than that. The larger the primes used the more efficient some of these new algorithms work. This means that making longer and longer keys will become less and less effective.

That was one of the main reasons for why elliptic curves started to be used. I don’t know much about cryptography but I recently learned that some elliptic curves are actually cryptographically weak! To me that sounds like ALL elliptic curves may be potentially weak.

The whole field of cryptography seems suspicious to me. It’s almost as if the public scientific community has been taught toy math while the big boys and girls at the NSA and other classified areas are using another kind of math and science.


I am famous for that you see :slight_smile: The folk in the office say it’s my signature and proves it was me writing.


Many crypto Engineers and scientists agree now and that is the shame of it all. They were betrayed by the standards body NIST and lies from field testing. It is an absolute disgrace what NSA / GCHQ and others have done to this field. EC is highly suspicious, RSA is definitely breaking down and perhaps lattice will be the answer here, but nobody trusts the system any more.


Then what about the SAFE network? Do you use non-standard cryptographic algorithms?


No, we use standard ciphers from cryptopp (Wei Dei’s library which is public domain), but implement them in pairs and use further obfuscation steps. Many criticise us for obfuscating too much, but I argue that we must further enhance the algorithms where possible, sort of like make the implementation of them correct and immune to breaks to as great a degree as we can.


I’m not well up on the crypto field itself and have only basic understanding, but can’t we take some comfort from Snowden on this? He both revealed what the NSA has done to weaken and bypass parts of crypto systems, and said that the encryption itself is fundamentally sound, so use it well, and worry about the endpoints.


Only some I think :wink:


I thought RSA got into it with the US government over RSA’s release to public domain of a non public key (much less convenient) system that no amount of computation could defeat? Does that mean it might be possible to physically mail dongles or use some other less convenient means to lock them out for the foreseeable future? If such a system exists, is there any hope of making it more practical. So much seems to ride on getting policy types to give up on certain approaches by making undeniably impractical so they won’t be funded.

Also, if confidence is lost in cryptography wouldn’t doesn’t that have a highly likelihood possibly crumbling global commerce. Would it make big computing efforts and crypto research outfits into the equivalent of nuclear proliferation scenario where they’d be arguing for tech supression and containment to prevent a global lock pick?

You’d think certain things would damage a standards bodies ability to promulgate standards, like lying about crypto math and lying about 911.

NIST explaining why a few burning lawn chairs completely collapsed 47 story 14 year old WTC Building 7


“4. What caused the fires in WTC 7?
Debris from the collapse of WTC 1, which was 370 feet to the south, ignited fires on at least 10 floors in the building at its south and west faces. However, only the fires on some of the lower floors—7 through 9 and 11 through 13—burned out of control. These lower-floor fires—which spread and grew because the water supply to the automatic sprinkler system for these floors had failed—were similar to building fires experienced in other tall buildings. The primary and backup water supply to the sprinkler systems for the lower floors relied on the city’s water supply, whose lines were damaged by the collapse of WTC 1 and WTC 2. These uncontrolled lower-floor fires eventually spread to the northeast part of WTC 7, where the building’s collapse began.”

"8. Why did WTC 7 collapse, while no other known building in history has collapsed due to fires alone?

The collapse of WTC 7 is the first known instance of a tall building brought down primarily by uncontrolled fires. The fires in WTC 7 were similar to those that have occurred in several tall buildings where the automatic sprinklers did not function or were not present. These other buildings, including Philadelphia’s One Meridian Plaza, a 38-story skyscraper that burned for 18 hours in 1991, did not collapse due to differences in the design of the structural system (see the answer to Question 9).

Factors contributing to WTC 7’s collapse included: the thermal expansion of building elements such as floor beams and girders, which occurred at temperatures hundreds of degrees below those typically considered in current practice for fire-resistance ratings; significant magnification of thermal expansion effects due to the long-span floors in the building; connections between structural elements that were designed to resist the vertical forces of gravity, not the thermally induced horizontal or lateral loads; and an overall structural system not designed to prevent fire-induced progressive collapse."


It’s not “if”, the crypto mailing lists were rocked to their core when this started leaking out. It’s OK though folks just think oh those white lab coat scientists are moaning about something complicated sounding. The seriousness of these leaks has just not reached the larger community but the acceptance it does not matter seems to be a measure of the current apathy.

The extent of the tomfoolery by 5 eyes and the rest are so far beyond belief, it seems not real from the inside looking out. I feel this has been coming for many years and this is a reason that MaidSafe is extremely hard to do, we have to consider every single line of code is known by everyone and most of these agencies will try hard to break this. We code as though every single algorithm will be tested and broken where possible and that will be with a significantly funded and much more manned team than we have, plus they will not have the pressure we do.

So the task is worth considering every single line, every variable, every type and every single compiler flaw that may exist. We do and I am glad we do, I really worry about the projects that knock together some python and javascript to create the core libraries, it is very dangerous.

It’s also why we have had to create everything from the ground up and go nowhere near internet servers for logging into an app / wallet etc. the servers in my opinion are gone and were years ago. I think almost every single password should be considered known, every person is probably tracked and every time we go to any server we are trapped like a rat in a cage being studied.

It’s also why we need to make the apps super friendly simple and faster than today’s apps, people will not need to worry and we should not have to persuade them of the arguments for privacy, that will simply be inherent.

The job we have as a community and especially core team right now is huge, the pressure to make it all smooth is incredibly immense and it probably should be. The prize is gigantic and not for us, for everyone, especially those who are currently researched monitored and increasingly controlled. We are past 1984 in real time now and well past the warnings from Orwell’s worst nightmare in his book and the job is very real and more important than any of us as individuals.

Its serious, but its amazing to see and watch it all happening. Whether the tech works is behind us now, it is just smoothly launching we need to do and that is happening right now. I am so glad it is happening it is a dream come true to see it all.

What will make me realise we have succeeded is that smile on a childs face that has survived because of this or at least been given the chance of a considerably better life. That smile is when I will sleep and maybe take an actual holiday :smiley: