Meshnets on Maidsafe


I believe you confuse criticisms with bashing. By no means do I think there is no merit to the project. I just have a few criticisms that I believe could be tweaked to improve the overall project. I provided my non-biased opinion that was derived from multiple stand-points and I’m posting here to let you guys know about them.

Now I believe you’re referring to the bit about making your own token instead of making it more of a share that pays in a crypto specifically designed to be a currency? I roasted NKN because of how late in the game they are. MAIDsafe was made when every project used this method, so its different.


Wasn’t too impressed with MaidSAFE

these projects all messed up in similar ways. They all depend on everyone having their product to work, and none of them allocate data based on where it is most commonly accessed which is an issue because P2P networks are infamous for being slow.

These seem like bashes to me, and I am no expert, but I am pretty sure that the Safe Network will be faster than regular P2P, in regards to Speed of retrieving data and saving data to the network.


In any case, I pointed out the problems with every project I mentioned. Every project I mentioned, however, is there because each one needs each other to work with another to get a fully working system that can actually replace the current one.

The SAFE network (as it’s current development is looking to go towards) will not be faster than regular P2P, in fact it will be slower than a game of “For Honor” and especially slower than a site like bitchute which uses peers to host its site’s content. This is because the data will be distributed using XOR addressing. To express why this is a problem further, allow me to quote someone from the GoTenna project:

"But after looking at Lightning, and similar protocols, they make two assumptions that must somehow be overcome :

exchanging messages with any node is essentially a free operation, because all nodes are equally connected on the internet
communication costs are negligible and an interactive protocol is ok
Neither assumption is true for a long range, but low bandwidth, mobile mesh network like goTenna."

Two things to note:

  1. This was said about bitcoin’s lightning network which only has to process transactions and not other data
  2. This may be specific for GoTenna and all but you may have noticed that net neutrality is going away and will remain true for legacy networks as well.

To top it all off, MaidSafe has been in development for 9 years and substratum is already on its coat tails. When the SAFE network is fully launched it won’t even be as competitive as its alternatives.

I came back here because this is where my mesh network journey began and I felt it was worth it to give you a kick in the rear to wake up and develop a partnership or something to get a competitive edge. I have a plan laid out to get that competitive edge, but it won’t matter if its ignored. (Hint: it has to do with restructuring the powers that grant us access to the internet itself)


Not really.
Safe:// network is public infrastructure,autonomous (without coat tails).
And without passwords going across networks.

Has Substratum got any coat tails?

How (and where) do you login, without eg; self
authentication? Just curious.


So that verbage was supposed to portray that they aren’t there yet but they’re so close its scary. They’ve been developing since last year and they’re in private beta. Not to say that they’ve caught up. Also, the public infrastructure of MAIDsafe is currently hosted on a single server. Not distributed like its final product will be.

The authentication thing probably isn’t a good thing…I can see it potentially being worse than cookies. I’m not here to say the project is a total loss though. I came here to present an opportunity that would make the project competitive.


Not correct. The only thing is Maidsafe is running all the NODEs at the moment. Not that they are running one server. Alpha 4 will see all of us running nodes at home again

Sounds like you don’t realise what is actually happening. The point is that there is no central point that can be attacked to prevent you logging in. There is zero footprint left on the device unless you actually store something on the machine. Unlike cookies or any other similar thing. And noone can say your account is closed.


Well those of us who participated in a testnet with vaults/nodes at home might disagree with you on how slow things were. I can let others tell you that it wasn’t slow like you describe. Sp we have experience and you have your views/quotes of other systems and superimposing their experience on the safe network.


Alright well…I hope your shit works. >_<


Well everyone thinks their farts don’t smell. :wink:


How did we get here from orginally talking about developing meshnets on maidsafe? Topic seems to have meandered a bit don’t you think?


MaidSafe isn’t optimized for meshnets. I was trying to present things that would be required of it to cooperate with other systems to get the thing to work. Unfortunately it would seem we can’t admit to any faults now can we?


Of course people will admit to actual disadvantages or challenges, but not pretend ones!

For example, the Safe network will not be good for very low latency applications in its current planned form due to multiple hops between nodes to retrieve data.

However, many in the community are very intetested in getting Safe & meshnets to work together, so if you present your ideas positively, you’ll find a positive response and others who want to see mesh nets and the Safe network complementing each other.


I think “ultimate” digital freedom can’t be achieved solely by maidsafe or whatever software product you like, IMHO we need decentralized internet infrastructure involving fiber/FSO meshnets. Links should belong to people, not some ISP company. We need fibers running from people to people. I’ve been following project too… A link is quite expensive but price could drop with volume. I don’t like wifi for health reasons and as I understand, latency would be an issue with multiple hops. Would this be less of a concern with optical links, or still too many hops would be problematic?
In other words, am I dreaming? :thinking:


Mutable data is cached close to where it is frequently being accessed. Where the vault that stores the original lives isn’t likely to have a big driver on the performance of popular data (or even data you have used frequently and recently).


Eh? They have completely different design goals. Substratum is more of a distributed VPN than anything else. That isn’t even a goal of SAFENetwork.


I suppose you meant immutable data, because mutable data isn’t cached (and cannot be).


Yes - I meant immutable.


Yes avoiding the centralization of ISPs is also why I’m pushing for meshnets. Wifi worries me as well, just look at it’s affect on plants, but it seems unavoidable in it’s entirely. But it could be cut down a bit using things like LiFi and SDR. Also you’re right more hardline would be better but that would be A LOT of optical cabling. I wonder though perhaps we’re going about this all wrong. Perhaps we could develop a biological informational transfer system rather than a technological one, maybe plant based or something. I’m just throwing an idea out here for any science geeks listening but imagine a network of roots or perhaps blood vessels that simply grow underground towards wherever they are needed carrying information just like a tree would or our own nerves or neural networks. It seems to me the problem with wifi and such is a) they are mechanical and the EMF destroys plants and interferes with other biological life forms. b) They need to be manually built whereas a life form would grow and maintain itself.

An third option might be an autonomous robotic self sustaining network of some sort though I’m not sure how that would work at all. And considering the need for cabling and such I think that would get into the field of nanotech. Also it would have the original EMF problem.

Yes I know I’m talking science fiction here but then again an autonomous decentralized internet was science fiction just half a decade or a decade ago so go figure. Now we’re building it. Who knows what will happen in a few years.


Just started learning a bit (basics) about LiFi from the Edinburgh University’s Research and Development Centre.

One of the benefits listed is complete elimination of health concerns.

Very interesting, and a bold claim.


Yes well you could set up Lifi lighting or have some LiFi laser relays on say some mountain tops or something. It’s by no means perfect but it could be an important tool to augment and cut down the need for widespread Wi-Fi. Combine that with SDF (software defined radio) and you could cut down the need even further. It’s not about using just one tech but all of them together. Throw maidsafe in there and it gets even more interesting.