Meshnets on Maidsafe


#21

Also i think this technology only works in one direction (from base station/s to the client) and its interesting to know how they will come over the refection/echo problem. so it wouldnt work with maidsafe very well, cause maidsafe needs also a lot of upload bandwidth.


#22

Whut? cjdns not opensource? https://github.com/cjdelisle/cjdns/

CJS is working right now on a decentralised DNS, he only said DNS is another problem to solve later. also cjdns is just the communication layer and have nothing to do with DNS or other software which runs on it.


#23

@urrtag thanks for the update, I was ignorant to the fact that it was opensourced now. Their decentralized DNS still uses central authorities, why not just fork Namecoin and adjust the parametres?


#24

They want use a Namecoin like system, but with an addition. So that you dont need to download the whole blockchain just to use the naming system. You just have to state who you trust. This system is not really centralised as there can be more than one trusted server. Also you can just run a full node for your self with the disadvantage of having to download and maintain the whole blockcain, what you dont want on a mobilephone or just a “browsing pc”.


#25

@urrtag basically what your saying is that they are using http://convergence.io/… If opinions count, “this is still the old system”. I’m glad it’s open sourced, someday somebody will come along that will do it right, because I really think it’s not being done right… But who I’m to give my opnion i can’t even code.


#26

I think if development of mesh network technologies were incentivized by payment via a cryptocurrency, it could make the advent of a more open internet possible. It could start as small mesh networks. Then it grow to larger networks - possibly supported by drones built using open-sourced plans and launched by individual people for “mining” profit by “proof of network” or whatever, Then, eventually, as maidsafe becomes more popular people could form mining pools where basically they built or bought full-on fiber-optic internet infrastructure. Sounds crazy? Who would have thought so much money would be spent on Bitcoin mining hardware and that such large pools with massive buying power would develop.


#28

Look at skywire/skycoin


#29

But why is NameCoin a “better” and “newer” system in your opinion? As i already said: set your own “root” server up and trust it with your Smartphone/Tablet/Whatever.


#30

Let me suggest that its important that the cable and telcos not get their return on equity as that would be more money taken from end users when that money could be used to start to build out an end user owned and controlled network now. I have a feeling consumer free space roof top line of sight optical could play a role. As could attempting to save the PC industry, as PCs left on with mesh nics may prove important. All the money cable and telco claims to have spent was based on highly inflated rates. Its not that we want to discourage investment in tech, but we want people to look where they are going. Investing to turn the net into Fox News deserves to be met with hard loss.

Suggesting that Telco and Cable get their return on equity would be like suggesting the RIAA and its labels get their return on equity. The public booted them for running absolutely counter to the public interest. They were paid off. Cable and Telco are paid off and in the way. The idea that these firms should be able to profit by interfering with end user communication is absolutely unacceptable.

If we could get an open mesh phone with a near range of half a mile or more that might be enough to start the change pretty quickly. Of course through MaidSafe such a system could make use as suggested above of current infrastructure but to really make the difference we need to be looking to cut the cord on the ISPs, like we did the ISPs. And we don’t want to roll backwards either. For instant instant crypto currency voluntary micro payments could prevent thing like the labels coming back. We’d never for instance want corporate labels to ever again have price control.


#31

When you register a dot BIT, with Namecoin theoretically no one can hijack it, but this can be further improved, by using POS.

The problem with convergence IMHO, is that you still need to trust someone. Why would you want to move from trusting Certificate Authority to trusted companies? They are both the same (just plain old people that can be hacked, ideally you DON’T WANT TO CHOOSE WHO YOU TRUST (normal consumers woulden’t even have a clue)). So the better solution would be Convergence, but in a decentralized/blockchain set up, so we can all trust the math.


#32

Sorry guys I’ve been in dreamland check this out


#33

Around 9:00 ~ they are talking about credits for allowing others to access your wifi or battery power. A similar concept of safecoin farming. Really cool ideas…

Around 20:00 ~ Distributed Nodes (security in numbers) to the rescue.

22:45 ~ Space Monkey is mentioned and the answer to why isn’t this stuff taking off is because it’s hardware. The answer is we need software that will make things like this work on existing hardware 24:40.


#34

I think MaidSafe needs both hardware and software approaches. The set-top box approach and the software approach. These approaches target different audiences. New users don’t have the expertise to want to deal with software.

Grandma doesn’t want to learn this stuff and just wants to access the network by plugging it in. The Apple community is the same way, they want to plug it in and go.


#35

I agree that hardware will be inevitable, but the software is what will make adoption easy to start with. Anyone with a computer and free space can join without purchasing anything. You’re right the media box idea is amazing, and will bring SAFE to all the grandmas out there.


#36

William Hertling had “Mesh Boxes” in his book AI Apocalypse. If memory serves these were a hardwired monolithic block of circuitry, (maybe even EMP hardened- pushing it) mesh node router type units. Could have been solar powered. I don’t remember anything about how large or cheap they were. They were given away under the pretense of providing quick access to the cable telco bound internet but their purpose was to cut both out of the loop with a replacement internet.

A wide spread anonymous p2p will mean total whistle blowing or transparency which in turn will mean there is no point in spying because nothing will be secret and then there is no point in censoring because if they can’t even keep secrets they can’t pull off censorship effectively. Although Safecoin ostensibly is farmed from energy or offered up computing and network resources it would seem to finally trade in attention. A network of free hopefully gainfully used attention may provide a challenge to state and business power.

update- went back and checked. In his 2012 his super intelligent AI “ELOP” designed the mesh boxes to cut “Comcast” in particular out of the loop. In trouble when sci fi is lining up on you by name. Its joining the ranks of the BEIC, AG Farben, Monsanto, Haliburton.


#37

Great info, check this out though (we now have this code and are talking to the Uni’s involved, I am workign on it this weekend) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRcPReUpkcU

Get ready for a sore head though, but this changes everything for the best.


#38

Does this have anything to do with this:

The “dark horse” is “zero-knowledge Succinct Non-interactive Arguments of Knowledge” (zk-SNARK). If you haven’t heard of the term, basically they let Alice prove to Bob that she ran some specified computer program on a set of data, some of which may be hidden from Bob. The proofs are small (hundreds of bytes) and can be verified in constant time in the range of milliseconds. Computing the proofs is reasonable as well. Critically the program a zk-SNARKs proves can also include functionality to verify another zk-SNARK recursively. While this hasn’t yet been demonstrated “in production” it’s quite conceivable that all App Coins can be replaced with a single zk-SNARK based system, kind of a hyper-optimized version of Ethereum. Such a system could be itself implemented as an Mastercoin-style embedded consensus system, resulting in “one App Coin to rule them all”. Equally, Bitcoin can add such functionality.

Ahh… I see it does…very interesting


#39

Yes, been watching for a while, it only released libsnark last week https://github.com/scipr-lab/libsnark or so. I never noticed until I was emailing one of the authors. Very very smart guys and for sure game changing.

With this, then the sybil attack of any size can effectively be just gone. Much more so though, consensus chains could be reduced, network traffic minimised and much much more. As for safecoin double spend, or network atomicity worries or debates, then they just vanish. Not simple by any means, but stunning. The timing is wonderful as well.


#40

Just stunning…this is soooooo… good. I’m just going to do some bigging up Maidsafe with this new info. Nice one David.


#41

Spacemonkey has managed to get close to 3000 backers, they could work with Maidsafe, but then they have to change their whole pricemodel. Their algorythm to split data up could maybe even help Maidsafe, who knows.