Marketing Initiatives

I think a question we need to figure out is if this is indeed an enterprise without profits lol. I mean I assume anyone involved prolly has some MAID. If this succeeds the value of our collective MAID goes up and that’s like profits… am I wrong? At the very least if our organization holds crypto and it goes up in value that is for sure profits for our organization.

I think we would be hard pressed to call it a “charity” even if we are helping the world by showing them the SAFE network. I just don’t think the law enforcers will say “oh ok we understand the SAFE network helps the world.” so much as say “this looks like a company that thinks they are non profit just because the marketing is segregated from the rest”

I mean I hate to put a damper on the party but I think that people are already sorta asking this. @neo and @Sascha understandably don’t want to be key holders if that means we want them to illegaly move funds for us. I think the main issue there is are they doing a business activity or just being the treasurers for a non profit club?

Any “profit” should be redeployed against the aims of the foundation to support SAFE. Not for profit doesn’t mean that an organization doesn’t make profits; it means that those profits are never realized b/c the funds are redeployed for the NPO’s objective.

“Nonprofit corporations, by definition, exist not to make money but to fulfill one of the purposes recognized by federal law: charitable, educational, scientific, or literary. Under state and federal tax laws, however, as long as a nonprofit corporation is organized and operated for a recognized nonprofit purpose and has secured the proper tax exemptions, it can take in more money than it spends to conduct its activities.

In other words, your nonprofit can make a profit. Whether or not a nonprofit’s income is taxable depends on whether the activities are related to the nonprofit’s purpose.” (https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/taxes-nonprofit-corporation-earnings-30284.html)

That being said, I am neither an accountant nor lawyer. When it comes to setting up a Foundation, I think it’s best that people who have experience in that area take the lead, hence:

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ya I don’t know either, just saying there are some big question marks popping up. I mean if we end up in a court battle of some kind we basically botched the whole thing IMO. It has to be 100% for sure clean so the police of this don’t even speculate we might be guilty of a crime.

I do realize that non profits can sometimes be in the green as long as that surplus is not just absorbed by the “owners.”

I think we need a pro to evaluate:

  1. Is there any chance our proposed activities could be seen as for-profit?
  2. Are there any legal implications if the money handlers are located in different jurisdictions? (maybe specific to where who we nominate are located)
  3. Is there any significant risk to having some of the decision making on where the money will go come from basically anywhere in the world? ie random ideas, some of which may be grey area as to if they are truly aimed at the NPOs defined goals.

If the answers are no no and no, I don’t see any other problems on the horizon. That said I agree it would be great if a pro at this could chime in and also answer the questions I missed asking haha

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Exactly. While I’m happy to strategize and execute on marketing initiatives, I’m wary of engaging in any activities that don’t pass muster legally. Setting up any form of Foundation is contingent upon finding someone with legal and accounting expertise in that area, I think.

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one thing that kinda worries me is trying to pay exchange listing fees with our NPO funds. I mean is that:

?

I don’t think it’s any of those. But I do want to see it happen. We really need an expert to either give us the nod or a good smack and say no that’s not allowed you silly ducks :stuck_out_tongue:

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The fact of the matter is nobody here wants to sponsor terror or hurt anybody in any way. We just want to let others know about this great project we have, and spreading this info may require some money. Regulating authorities are making things difficult and people like me are wary of accidentally committing a “crime”. It looks like many of the problems that have been mentioned in this thread could be avoided using - a Safe Network and a Safe Coin… Maybe something for Things That Would Not Have Happened On Safe. :smirk:

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ya really. Like in university there were all kinds of “clubs” that arguably were there to provide profits and benefits to the members. Don’t think any financed terrorism, but they definitely stretched the idea of “non-profit” lol. What’s different here? Is it cause were online under the all seeing eye?

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Perhaps. At the end of the day, it shouldn’t have to be so complicated. Technically, if we all “gifted” someone the funds, it would be tax-free (so long as in the US no one exceeded the life-time gift limit of ~$11M). Tax law is unnecessarily cumbersome, which keeps well-meaning people from acting while simultaneously providing often malicious actors with loopholes to exploit.

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ya I am starting to feel the only way to get this at least off the ground is if someone personally hires a legal expert and asks them about this idea. Can we all chip in and gift you the funds to buy a couple hours of lawyer time or whatever we need to feel confident this is all above board?

@dugcampbell used to be a lawyer. I know he is no longer involved but he might be worth asking.

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This sounds most reasonable to me. Everyone chipping in a small amount to get some expertise in to guide us is a good idea - you’ll be below gift thresholds for your respective countries by far, so there should be zero tax implication to this. We need to figure out two things:

  • Which territory do you ultimately want to incorporate in (or whatever it is you end up doing)?
  • Once you decide on a territory, which forum member should take time out of their day to go see a lawyer (or solicitor if you’re UK based)?

Logically, it’s most likely to be either the USA or the UK (since these seem to be the territories with the most members), and consider that you will likely need multiple people in the group who live in that territory. Most charities, or non profit organisations, can’t be started by a single person, they typically require a small group of 3-5 people to be granted that status (probably to prevent individuals using them as tax shelters).

So, order of precedence:

  1. Choose a territory
  2. Nominate a person to seek legal advice, and refund / pay them for it
  3. Nominate a group to form the organisation
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Yes very good info to consider here! Well I would be happy to help but I live in Canada lol, have yet to meet even 1 other person on these forums from here.

Anyways maybe if we can get a quick show of hands if you would be willing to help with this and what country you reside in. Like I have no specific preference anyways. I say just take whatever has most people. Unless of course one has more ideal laws for our purpose.

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Our foundation has a legal expert as well the company has a guy who was financial dude for SUN. If there’s a single page A4 I can get them to give us some pointers and they would do it gratis. Those guys have helped me immensely over the years, I don’t lean on them as their hourly rate would be sky high, but as pals then I am OK asking them. Of course confined to UK law.

International law is were we want odroit or similar.

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Thanks for the advice, David. I’m happy to start a google doc for this, and everyone can add their perspective.

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It’s good to see the direction this is going in. I didn’t want to negative earlier but was concerned that this was doomed to failure unless the legal aspects were properly taken into consideration from inception. A SAFE Network Foundation should not be hastily thrown together, which is what appeared to be the case earlier on.

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I’m a firm believer in measure (at least) twice, cut once. Inspiration and momentum has to come from/start somewhere, however :smile:

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Here is a link to a one-pager outlining the Foundation’s Aims, Structure and Key Questions. Send me a note, or reply here if you would like to edit the one-pager; I’ll send you a link with read/write privileges.

Let’s aim to have this one-pager finalized by Wednesday of next week so that David can share with his legal contacts for feedback.

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Really nothing I can think of to add to this. I think if everything in there is addressed (and the answer isn’t no its a bad idea for one of these points of course lol) we should then feel confident enough to move out of the hypothetical stage and get things physically happening so to speak.

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A believe another project called Lisk created such a foundation. They had to create it under swiss law as it was a lot a lot less difficult to implement it under those regulations! Better use some good lawyers!

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Anybody seen @SwissPrivateBanker recently? Perhaps he could offer some advice?

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