Exact time periods, especially round numbers or (heaven forbid!) Fibonacci numbers, are necessarily bogus. The world is more complex than that, and I dare somebody come up with a common underlying mechanism for completely different technological revolutions.
How do you even define a technological revolution? Or, how do you time its start? Can’t you just pick one of the more visible events, one that happened to be around the time your theory suggests, and BANG there’s your proof for … nothing. All theories work if you can cherry pick your references (again: Fibonacci )
Let’s just consider for a moment how little can we predict even a single instrument’s (e.g. MAID’s) price a week from now. And it’s nowhere as complex as what we’re talking about.
Btw we already had a .COM bubble; let’s pick what happened 50 years before, and call it the start of whatever culminated in the crash.
Disclaimer: I haven’t read the book, so I’m not saying the author actually commits this abomination.
Good talk, although I don’t think he needs to focus on the ‘sociopath’ angle when pointing out the weakness of the pyramid - even if it is true. I don’t think it matters how good your intentions are. Even the most benevolent and well-meaning ruler is a liability. Human beings are very limited creatures. We all think we’re right about every opinion we hold, yet we can only relate a few ideas at any one time and we’re linear, emotional and inconsistent. The problem with a pyramid is that information travels poorly vertically. There is no direct feedback or accountability, so power makes terrible mistakes. Power is perfectly natural, but nature designed dominion to be limited by physical factors that don’t apply to our socially and technologically developed species. There’s nowhere in the animal kingdom where one monkey can make decisions that ruin millions of other monkey’s lives. Nature uses feedback systems to self-regulate and limits power to the physical sphere of influence. We’ve taken the problem to the most extreme end of the scale, where very powerful individuals make mistakes that hurt billions of people every single day… unnecessary suffering on a scale beyond imagining.
When James Lovelock proposed a homeostatic, self-regulating planet that was adjusting its own environment for the benefit of life itself (Gaia theory), the biologists, like Richard Dawkins, laughed at him and made jokes about all of the animals meeting on top of Mount Ararat to decide what temperature it should be next year. It seemed ridiculous with no organising principle or singular consciousness to provide the driving force. We’re so used to the hierarchy model for coordinated action that it was unnatural/inconceivable for people to look to nature’s example of interconnected feedback systems when thinking about action in terms of purpose and self-interest.
It didn’t take long for Lovelock to produce his mathematical ‘Daisyworld’ proof, which clearly demonstrated self-regulation through feedback loops for the benefit of life. Since then the same principle has been applied sufficiently to our own ecosystems to silence the critics and earned a name change from ‘Gaia Theory’, to ‘Earth System Science’.
I think the same thing will/must happen with social organisation. Our social evolution needs to become a science/art that we study and practice. Direct feedback loops must be created; preferably around direct, decentralised accountability to prevent anyone wanting power or being able to do much damage with it. Freedom is everything, but one man’s freedom ends where the next’s begins. We don’t need to be controlled or told what to do with laws and systems of dominion, we need a way to fairly hold each other to account.
Decentralisation of power is, to my mind, the single most important thing we can try to achieve in this world. The implications stretch far deeper into our lives than most people realise. Humanity has been held back by individuals for too long. We need new ways of arguing, new ways of coordinating, new ways of calling to account. The blockchain will be great for some of that, but freedom must be the first step if we want to empower ourselves; freedom is power and freedom is ‘privacy and security’. That’s why SAFE has been pretty much the first and last thing I’ve thought about every day since I first caught a glimpse of the potential hidden under the hood. It still gives me goosebumps.
Just my 2 cents anyway… GL SAFE, humanity is counting on you, no pressure!
Nicely articulated @Jabba. Another piece of this puzzle is elaborated by the late David Bohm, who’s support for the ridiculed de Broglie theory of quantum effects seems to be gaining experimental support - most recently through the NASA experiment which this week validated the principle of a supposedly impossible ‘StarTrek’ EMDrive.
Bohm and de Broglie’s classical explanation of quantum effects are also gradually being replicated by fluid dynamics - quantum behaviors such as wave particle duality / one and two slit interference, quantum spin, discrete orbits etc demonstrated in purely classical mechanics. It now seems they offer a way to explain how thrust can be developed inside the EMDrive closed system, without emitting a substance to generate reactive momentum.
Meanwhile, many physicists are still skeptical the EMDrive experiment is valid simply because the existing theories of physics can’t account for it - without Bohmian mechanics and de Broglie’s theory - which they have embarrasingly sidelined for 90 years.
Why do i mention this, all seamingly unrelated?
Because I think it is vital to listen to men like Bohm and Lovelock who recognise that everything is connected, and reading about the EMDrive yesterday lead me to the following shortish video David explaining how this interconnection operates, how it is within us, and how a revised world view (like Lovelock’s) is the only way out of the predicament we find ourselves in. Without that, decentralisation will I think be just another technology, which won’t in fact improve things overall. Fixing things piecemeal, first this area, then that, won’t do it.
Worth watching this if you don’t know Bohm or what I’m talking about.
For me Bohm was a real eye opener, lots of ahah moments like when I first encountered MaidSafe.
Sorry for going so far off this topic, but this is essential stuff IMO, for everyone.
Well I could go on all night lol. We’ll probably get shifted to off-topic at this point though lol.
Yes I agree, decentralised technology alone isn’t enough, no matter how ‘decentralising’. Power is an issue that must be dealt with if we want an interconnected, decentralised, holistic and free society. Once you decentralise power through accountability everything else naturally follows imo. The first step to that end has to be the freedom to act and organise in a way that’s private and can’t be censored.
Andreas was right, power will always attack any points of control, and power gets its way (), so only a truly decentralised system can withstand it by avoiding those weak points. Decentralised technology like SAFE can help us take the first step, giving us the freedom to take more and more creative and subversive steps to redesign and replace the failed systems we use today. We can disrupt it all eventually, but the freedom to act and organise is the first big obstacle.
I think the second big leap needs to come in the form of decentralised accountability, as you can probably tell from the number of times I’ve used that word already .
We know the legal system doesn’t really work. Laws written by groups of like-minded white dudes don’t reflect real moral or ethical standards, and they don’t change with social expectations and ideals. Nor is the punishment usually constructive, rehabilitative and appropriate. Besides, from your lobbying budget to the quality of your lawyers and your social capital, ‘justice’ is really all under the thumb of money and power. This is why I was so anti Clinton even in the face Trump as an opponent.
Removing the weak points and redesigning the justice system is our best bet for making concentrations of power undesirable imo. Who wants power that they’re accountable for? And if they do, no worries, they can’t do any harm or they’re directly accountable for it. This naturally discourages power without impinging on freedom. We don’t need socialism to solve the wealth gap and we don’t all need to have the same amount of money, nor do we need to be told what to do by anyone else; we need a feedback, a disincentive for anyone to want too much power as they become more likely to do inadvertent harm and be held accountable for it.
Decentralised accountability is our Frodo Baggins imo, that’s how we get the rings into Mount Doom for good . No easy challenge though. It’s another huge project that will require a dedicated group of people to problem-solve their way through for many years. I’d love to be railing and supporting that project in my old age and adding my 2 cents to the debates there too.
Ahhh, feels cathartic to get it out, the wife is sick of listening to me talk about this kind of thing and since I moved to the sticks I don’t have anyone else around to vent it at.
Couldn’t agree more. I feel viscerally wound up from not talking about it enough recently lol. This forum is my only outlet… ahhhh, feels better.
For better or worse I’ve been and will keep everything in MAID form, as can be seen in the crowdsale addresses. SAFE-FS, SafeAppStore and SAFE Network fates are all tied, as long as SAFE / MAID doesn’t totally fail then neither can our project.
Just sad to see such little demand these days, I guess everyone just gets tired of waiting. Sad to see people don’t appreciate authenticator / mobile websites coming soon, and maybe don’t believe vaults will be released soon.
Doesn’t matter immediately, things still go along, but just sort of somber to see the price point updates on my MaidSafeCoin Android tracker app
Maid getting beat up more than the other top alts. For non technical traders and investors there hasn’t been much support in the way of news. Only the true believers and die heads (like myself) left. The rest are leaving in droves…
Hoping for a boost soon.
Until we have a live network the prices are just noise. They are basically meaningless. It’s purely speculators entering to make a profit, then leaving to try to make short-term profit elsewhere when they see an opportunity. All price changes reflect is whether most speculators think BTC will go up more first, or whether MAID will. At the moment most speculators think BTC is more likely to keep going up over the next few days. Maid fell slower than other alts at first because there was more expectation of something interesting happening in MAID quite soon. Now quite a few people changed their minds because BTC buy signals stayed strong and support has been strong enough to suggest BTC might keep going up for the next week or more.
When BTC eventually retraces some of the gains MAID will probably recover most of the value, but it will still be meaningless really. Unless you are just in for short term trades then prices mean nothing and should not really annoy anyone. I bought my coins with the hope that they will be worth close to $1 each soon after launch, presuming it all works as we hope. It might take a bit longer than any of us had hoped, but that hasn’t changed, so it really makes no difference how the price yo-yo’s between 2c and 20c before then imo.
It’s fun watching it go up and sad to see it go down, but it really doesn’t make any difference for now, unless you’re brave enough to trade it for gains. If the network launches successfully and we’re sitting on coins worth under 50c a few months later, then I think we all have the right to be a little shocked and scratch our heads wondering why. For now these price changes are irrelevant and only reflect the very short-term expectations of speculators, with zero utility demand to provide stability or price support.
Some of you are hoping for good news from maidsafe - for example the release of vaults. While that would definitely be good news I think the market may just shrug it off or worse! Putting a lot of hope and daydreaming into something to happen will create a lot of expectations (price wise!) and when these expectation do not manifest (maidsafecoin does not boom) the market might have an adverse reaction and actually take the price even lower!
This thought came to me when I saw this happen just recently with another crypto - Factom (great company btw!). In a very short timeframe they announced:
beginning of testing milestone 2 (release immanent, few weeks)
Now milestone 2 or M2 has been worked on for quite a while now and has been highly anticipated. So this is/was big news. The market made a 30+% bump but retraced totally within 2 days. Now the price is even lower than before the testnet release. The Bill Gates news made even less effect. People (believers) in Factom bitcointalk thread were totally perplexed.
This I believe is because of BTC rise as Jabba said. We are in an altcoin BEAR market. People are seeing much better returns in bitcoin so they are jumping ship. Only true believers remain. Those are few unfortunately in this very greedy profit oriented speculative space of many.
So I would be careful what you wish for. Rather let the team keep on hammering forward without any pressure from us for an early release. It will come when it comes. Hopefully we will be out of this decline by then so that the news will actually have a chance to make a nice positive impact (price wise)!
For all the people who feel the pain (from market price) - you are overinvested! The emotional state you are in WILL make you sell at the bottom when the real panic sets in. We are not there yet. IF bitcoin breaks ATH then there will be blood.
If you cannot handle carring that big of a volume of maidsafecoin then just sell a little. It´s just money, man! Don´t let it ruin your mind.
Alright I have to be that guy to raise this thread. So the buy depth is looking good. Maybe whales looking to create some manufactured steam, because they feel like it’s the right time to do so. Either way, looks like MAID’s never reaching 6 cents again? (Unless BTC once again goes higher than ever, which is definitely possible somewhat in the short term, though there are articles saying BTC will go to $2000 sometime next year. But sometime next year there will be a new kid on the non-blockchain.) Maybe it’ll go up a little bit more, and then the buy walls will be taken down, and we’ll be around this 10000 satoshi floor until next huge SAFE news.