MaidSafeCoin (MAID) - Price & Trading topic (Part 1)

… so on Polo price seems throttled btw 0100 and 0104 … with the buy wall on one side… and pos. hidden Sell orders on the other… well I’m none the wiser… looks like it want push up a bit today though…

Very little action going on at the moment. I suspect we will see a relatively large move one way or the other, but hoping 10k satoshi is a good enough support to push up from.

Considering the quality of the last test net, I am a little bemused about why the price is so flat still. It seems to me that week on week, good progress is being made and demonstrated, specifically around the hard core of the project - the distributed network.

For me, adding calls to move data about looks to be the relatively easy bit. The really hard (with unknowns) bits seem to be largely finished and now the roadmap to completion looks relatively straightforward. Sure, there are some complexities around farming to be resolved, but beyond that, I am starting to wonder what is keeping investors away.

This technology has the potential to overshadow all of what has been achieved via blockchains. Surely, people don’t need to be an exceptional visionaries to see this now?

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Feel the same way… no matter how much I try to debunk my bias I still come full circle.

If SAFE works as it is supposed to then the risk/reward for investors ought to be irresistible… even if you only think it has a <10% shot at working as described and you don’t care about the social implications; if it does work it obviously goes a hell of a lot further than 10:1 over coming years… 100:1 or even 1000:1+ returns over the next decade all seem very possible if SAFE really does what it says on the tin.

I’m constantly questioning my position and confidence, but I like to remind myself of those guys in ‘the big short’ pulling their hair out with worry for years, but sticking with the fundamentals. Our day will come, or at least it’s as you say, it’s surely a great bet with so much of the really hard work already done! Plus the bet backs an idea worth supporting, it’s not often you get to feel so good about an investment’s potential and its service to society. So much potential win:wink:

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A few things to consider,

Smart investors look at many things when deciding who gets their money. The technology is just one thing. The company history, the track record of key individuals driving the company, the breadth of the team.

The Safenet technology is exciting and is coming together very nicely. David and team continue to do an outstanding job. The business side of things is not coming together as nicely and this is as important as the technology. There are funding concerns, manpower concerns and a yet to be established bulletproof incentive model for participating in the network. All of these need immediate and focused attention.

Anyone thinking about “investing” would be monitoring the price and this forum and would see there is no broad interest in long term investing and its limited to daytrades, there are some large holders that manipulate and valid concern about when or if the technology will make it to market.

In my view David & Team will succeed and will meet the expectations of all but not in the near term. It will take at minimum another year - likely more - before all the cogs are in place and quietly working in harmony. Then you see the price move significantly.

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You probably already know how much I’m against “buy and hold” investing in general. Yet, I must confess I see a practically unlimited upside (“to infinity and beyond”) to a well defined and limited downside (“you lose all of what you invested”) to holding these coins… So, while I consider putting all savings into MAIDs pure gambling, I definitely see them as part of that small, opportunistic side of the portfolio that can make all the difference on the long run :heart_eyes_cat:

Also, let’s support the devs, if we can.

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If core is ready and network launches stable in combination with the API I don’t see why its market cap should be non-equal to ethereum current cap.

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I see many reasons why, once proven & reliable, MAID market cap should be non-equal to Ethereum’s.

Firstly, it’s something that many people would actually use (a decentralised, secure, encrypted internet). This has much wider appeal than smart contracts in my opinion, and it’ll be far easier to use for the average person.

Secondly, it’ll be a superior crypto-currency, with even faster transactions than Ethereum, much larger transaction capacity, no fees, and built in utility for the currency (SAFE network resources).

Thirdly, in time, it should be able to do all Ethereum does for lower fees & higher capacity (except for uses that require a public ledger, which Safe can hopefully implement, but it may not).

So, I think it’ll be a much more valuable network than Ethereum over all, with wider appeal & utility, so I expect it’s market cap to be significantly higher.

Of course I could be totally wrong - we’ll just have to wait and see :slight_smile:

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What do you guys think is the market cap above which the coins really need to be divisible? This will be really important for mass adoption. If we were like bitcoin right now, then we had $2+ coins, which feels a little clumsy for buying starbucks. Not to mention that bitcoin’s $10 billion is ridiculous in the big picture of things; if SAFE gets widely adopted, the market cap can easily go into the trillions, and 2^32 coins just won’t cut it: $1 trillion => 1 SAFE = $232.84.

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I think it should be as soon as possible, particularly to enable powerful micro-transactions.

If micro-transactions were easily able to be used for content access, it could be a real gamechanger (e.g. tiny fees for ad-free access to articles, streaming video or music, pay for downloads, pay for SAFE based license key assets for software / access, etc etc).

At the moment crypto-currency doesn’t enable this, but Safe could enable it in an easy, accessible, scalable, flexible way.

It would be great if this were possible with the fundamental network currency, rather than needing to build other micro-payment ready tokens on top of the network, which wouldn’t be universally accepted.

Machine to machine payments could be another big area of use for micro-transactions.

So, just for micro-transactions divisibility may be critical, and for other reasons as well I’m sure.

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Actually it does now.

IOTA have just done it with chainless consensus, no fees etc, Release v0.9.26-alpha · iotaledger/iota-gui-beta · GitHub - it’s all designed for machine to machine micro transactions, as cfb says, ‘not built for humans’. It works too, I’ve been playing with it for the last week in testing phases; it’s not SAFE, but it is pretty cool tech. Official launch is 2 days from now.

I completely agree RE divisibility though, it’s very important already at 7c a coin and needs to be sorted while testsafecoin is evolving through its iterations imo.

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As usual brethren the answer is staring us in the face. A large whale has stacked his money on .0001 why? Because if that same whale went full in at market price it would send the price soaring which would cause at this stage of the game for the price never to return back to .07 it would see new heights of .20 or higher.

The best way to catch more maids at a low price is to catch market movements hitting the wall.

Our whale investor at .0001 and the others who have joined his trump wall know full well that bitcoins crazy volition would cause market movements to slap into the wall.

I they let maid return back to its lower values of .05 is because there was low liquidity people were holding with an iron fist. A new high of .07 injects a whole new level of liquidity as more investors are willing to sell at more and more highs.

an example would be someone who bought 100 million maids at .02 exiting at .07 may be more tempting.

The more highs we see the more purchasing power is brought about the more liquidity the volume becomes.

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I’m not an economics expert but this will take 15+ years IMO

Wow - hadn’t come across IOTA Ledger. It sounds brilliant.

As you say, it’s not the safe network, but as a crypto-currency it offers many of the benefits SafeCoin is expected to offer.

Combine those benefits with the ease of use, data storage, decentralised web, and SAFE based crypto tokens, and you get something very exciting… I hope :smiley:

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Yeah the crypto coin element of SAFE has a bit of competition now with the benefits of chainless consensus (no fees or confirms etc) and no centralised mining. Having been doing test transactions for the last few days I can see a few disadvantages too though. You carry out a sort of proof-of-work yourself for the ‘tangle’ and currently it takes 30 mins or so to create an address or send coins, plus it drains your cpu while doing it. They reckon it will all get much quicker and it’ll take under 1 min after the first year when they can turn their ‘coordinator off’, but any time delays will be a disadvantage against safecoin as I understand it. You also have to add neighbours/nodes manually atm, but they say they will have automatic node discovery in the next few days.

It’s 100% targeted at IoT machines though, so not really designed for people at all. And with no decimal points the way they’ve denominated (Ti, Gi, Mi, Ki, i) would be confusing to human first-timers. It really is just aimed at businesses and not the public, so a very different animal even from the coin perspective.

Interestingly none of the devs there seem to know much about SAFE despite the cross over with chainless consensus work - I’ve mentioned it a few times in the testing chat. And I’ve never heard anyone here mention IOTA either. Shame really, I’d be interested to know what each team thought about the other’s solutions and approach. I guess the troon posse will probably say IOTAs approach offers limited advantages and IOTA would say SAFE was too ambitious; that’s usually the case in my experience :wink:

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Don’t worry, economics have no real experts anyway :joy_cat: I think it can be never, or it can be in 6 months, or it can be 15 years. We’re talking about a system that has scalability at the core of its design; it’s so nonlinear that it’s impossible to even start to predict anything about it. True: if we look at history, things like this don’t usually happen. But if we look again, we can see that things like this do happen.

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I’m not sure about how easy it would be. As we know, farming depends on having a limited number of coins that keep getting recycled; it’s the heart of the mechanism that controls the scarcity of the coins, making them worth more as storage fills up. The moment we let the coins divide, we just made recycling a lot harder: all the parts need to be collected and put back into one before the coin can be returned to the pool; not a trivial problem to solve.

I think this is already solved to handle the small cost of Put request. If I remember correctly the idea is to have a special account linked to your normal account to handle the fraction of 1 Safecoin. The cost of PUT is taken from that. When it’s depleted you need to recharge it. When you recharge it a Safecoin is taken from your wallet and the amount inside the special account is set to 1.

The same can be done to handle microtransactions. You could send a micro amount of Safecoin from your special wallet to another user’s special wallet. When it fills up to more than one Safecoin, a new coin would be created and sent to the user’s normal wallet.

This way, you don’t need a file for every micro amount of Safecoin. Just a special wallet that keeps track of your spare change.

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Might alt-coins ease micropayments as well?

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Keep in mind safecoin should be out long before 15 years is up. And keep in mind SAFE is a RESOURCE economy and is tied to physical values. Right now it’s all arbitrary because all we have is maidsafecoin but when safecoin comes out and data = hardware = power = money then we’ll see a shift in value. Remember hard drives are made of physical materials, steel, copper, plastic, rare earths and sometimes precious metals, and those things have inherent value but also market values of their own. Therefore x amount of GB = x safecoins = x set amount of limited physical resources. It doesn’t matter if a hard drive can hold a couple terabyes or even petabytes. At the end of the day safecoin will be like the gold standard compared to worthless debt based fiat currency. Also bitcoin uses PoW while safecoin uses PoR. Why devote your computing resources to performing meaningless work when they can be devoted to a network that a) actually uses them for a practical purpose and b) rewards you in proportion to how much they are in demand.

I think we’re either going to wait to get over the buy wall or we’re going to hit the release safecoin. One or the other. Because when SAFE gets launched and the NETWORK value of safecoin starts going up what with everyone and his brother uploading to SAFE then people will more likely buy more hard drives. Or conversely people will buy more farming hardware in order to farm as opposed to buying safecoin. Then they’ll just let their rigs loose and wait till they’ve farmed enough coin to buy say some bitcoin or whatever other currency or resource they desire. But you see where I’m going with this. Buy walls won’t really work when SAFE is released.

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Purely hypothetical; I have no idea to see if it’s genius or if it’s idiotic.

Could there be a marketplace for alt-coins of infinite variety, something like the Kickstarter version of the Fed (and other central national banking systems)? Or maybe it would be more like a “stocks/bonds/derivatives meet currencies” kinda thing.

Let’s say I want to start a bakery (let’s call it “Cat Roll” :heart_eyes_cat:), so I release 1,000,000 Cat Dimes and sell them to my friends (in this context, investors) for other kinds of coins that I accept. They can either hold on to the kitties, hoping my venture goes well and they will appreciate, or they can start spending them: we would have an automated marketplace that handles the conversions between what the buyer has and what the seller wants.

I know it’s not an entirely new idea, but what I’m talking about is lowering the entry barrier to practically zero, Kickstarter style: Matt is good at explaining math, so he decides to put together a cheat sheet for midterms, then creates his Matt’s Math coins to fund the effort. When done, the coins could be exchanged to the finished product. In the meantime, they could also be spent on soda in the cafeteria. Clearly, this wouldn’t be a global currency, but that’s exactly the point: small communities could come up with currencies based on the things they value.

Again, I am well aware that there are other (I might say, simpler) approaches to these things, so I’m not sure if it would get adopted or if it’s useful even. Still, it sounds like a fun idea to play with :smiley_cat:

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