I never said they were creating more coins… Am I mistaken that initially there was some amount earmarked as the dev cut, that were planned to not enter the market until after final release, but they needed the money now so changed the plan on that? I am talking about these coins that were indeed created by a predefined ruleset. In addition to this there was something of a promise that the dev coins would not enter the market until after release. Its this latter point that changed and messed with what people had calculated the current market value as. I would contend that did somewhat destroy the credibility of the crowdsale, but my goal here is not to debate ethics so much as peg a price given the events that happened regardless of their ethical value. I am just curious if that selling is over and we can look for an equilibrium or if we should still expect the pressure of coins entering the market that had never been on the market before (albeit not “new” coins)
- MaidSafeCoin: ~10% of max possible number of SafeCoins.
- Early investors: 5% of max possible number of SafeCoins.
- Coins created after release: 5/115 for Core developers (If I understand it correctly).
hmm ya reading this it seems to imply the dev cut comes out of the farming rate… did they sell some like the first of what they are entitled to of that? I am not really sure on those details TBH… I just know this was talked about a number of years ago. It was right after the bnktothefuture thing where they raised a nice chunk but did not reach the target they had in mind. If they decided not to put any new maid onto the market that is music to my ears… but really just to hear “we have sold 75% of what we intend to” would make me more bullish. Right now with this unknown I am buying but leaving my orders deep (btw thanks whale that sold me cheap MAID last weekend lol)
Those Maid they were selling and probably will sell are part of that 10%. ICO had some issues, it was stoped and some of those 10% were not sold in ICO. Part of those remaining coins was sold later. So there is not any difference between any other ICO buyer and them. All those coins are part of that initial package and there was never any new coin created after ICO. You can check it in OMNI explorer.
ok that sounds more cool then what I thought they did. Still my question remains… How many of those “extra” coins have entered the market and can be considered fully effecting the price currently, and how much is yet to come?
There was slightly more than 10% (a few million coins) due to issues with Omni making mistakes.
The coins Maidsafe has came from ICO and from the Banktothefuture share sale.
The dev “cut” is only to occur with the live system. The live system here includes the release candidate beta(s) since it will just be declared the live system once proven.
All those coins have been accounted for by the market and anyone who has done their research. Technically there are no “extra” coins since they have existed since the crowd sale and owned by various people. Maidsafe is one of those “people” who own coins.
I know of some who have tried to claim this and that about the few million coins over the 10%, but in the end, the coins are known about and never hidden and the market has accounted for them since its easy enough to get the count of total coins from Omni web page.
Well all coins are existing and been factored in by the market. So the answer is no coins to come.
If one does a search of all omni addresses with MAID they will see the total coins - ie none are hidden.
Hope this helps you to understand the situation. This has been talked about earlier in this topic if you wanted to read through the 6000 odd posts
NOTE: “rate” here is not to be read as “total of”
Yea, its 5% of farming reward rate. The farmers get 100% of farming reward rate and core devs get 5% of farming reward rate. (these two rewards are then 105% of the farming reward rate)
Pay the developer is 10% of the farming reward rate. But not every GET will be a GET for the purposes of dev rewards
This brings to 105-115% of the farming reward rate.
And if Pay the Provider (10% of farming reward rate and not all GETs apply) is included then this brings the total to 105-125% of the farming reward rate will paid out as rewards when GETs occur
That only gives you a very coarse view. You could also say that all the farming rewards have been factored in by those who have done their research. If you look down the microscope though, you see there are actually distinct epochs leading up to when any farming rewards occur. If you plan to HODL until release then you don’t care as much. If you are trading before that at all though, you want to know what are the conditions of these smaller time frames. That is what I am getting at here. In terms of pegging the price based on the supply/demand of today what are the current conditions? Do we have more coins coming onto the market right now to effect the local price or do even small increases in demand=price growth? Of course, as we saw last weekend a random whale can also do a megadump at any time and really spice things up. So this won’t give you the whole story of short time frame supply/demand but is an important factor to note in your overall evaluation.
In the end you can have the opinion that its already priced in or be considering the effects of it still getting priced in… but for goodness sake can someone just answer my basic question: Are they still selling these coins or have they all touched the market at least once?
Are you talking of MAID or safecoin? I was considering only MAID in that
not sure I get your drift? Yes I am talking about MAID and what is trading on poloniex TODAY. In fact that was my point. I want to think in the most immediate sense what is available on the market right now. So without any debate on if the coins are “new” or not, I just want to know are they still hitting the market for the first time right now or has that been completed and now they are distributed to traders?
This really is immaterial.
There are still coins out there that have never "Hit the Market" and are still held by the people who bought them at the ICO. Maidsafe have sold some and still have the rest.
Back in this topic is the addresses that the coins reside in. Be careful since they moved them a while ago and may have moved them again. People do that for security and other reasons.
haha well I would love a more in depth analysis on how many coins have visited poloniex since the ICO whatsoever. If we could at least track what the big whales are doing that would be cool. This is the only big whale I really know of that has a forum where I can just ask them though lol
Take Poloniex’s wallet addresses and see the movement of coins into the hot one. It was the one similar to 1PoLo and their cold one was similar to 1ColD See above in this thread for the actual addresses.
how can I know from just the Polo wallets? I mean how do I know which coins are “new arrivals” that need to be counted and which had already visited before and are just back for a return trip?
Yes we can see how much they have now. I believe it is about 25% of all MAID. That is promising but it still doesn’t tell you about the big hordes people don’t trust just leaving on exchanges but have bought there and would be willing to send it back for the purpose of flipping.
Well you cannot know. But you can also find out what coins have not been to an exchange. Just do a database search on the coins that never went to an exchange. That is look at addresses where the coins either never moved or moved to other addresses separate to an exchange.
You can use the block chain explorer or setup your own node and scan the transactions and map out the transactions and you will get to know which coins never went to an exchange. It seems that is the figure you are after.
I really don’t understand what you are getting at in this topic. If you purchase a single MAID right now, you are getting one in 400M some odd coins in existence, and 1 out of 4B some odd coins possible. Whether or not they hit exchanges in the past, or if the MAID team is selling some of their HODL’d stock seems irrelevant. Any reasonable investor will find out this information before purchase.
I don’t consider every one of the 400M MAID equal weight on the supply. At least in the short term. In shorter time spans its more about the pressure in the pipes right now then how much water is in the ocean. Someone who bought at the ICO and just HODLed til now: well some people just look at the market cap like you suggest, but a lot just forget about those for now since there is no immediate price finding action involving them. I mean even if everyone just thought marketcap, when the whales move its still going to move the price. There is that nitty gritty of actual buys and sells happening where things are never perfectly smooth price wise.
I think this community especially has alot of long term HODLers. If you look at the buy side of market depth there is no where near offers to buy 400M any where near this price. This is not that relevant though, because there is only 1.5M actually listed for sale. I am just trying to get a better view on how much is basically for sale now but just being held in a private wallet.
Hi. As a relative newcomer and with great interest in this project, I had a quick question as to the transition from the current token into the final Safecoin - not in terms of of the logistics of the swap, but more in terms of the economics. I understand that the transition will be 1:1, all clear. But, the current token is of course based on speculation / interest, whereas the final Coin will be based on how the system decides it should be priced - supply and demand of resources. Therefore, if the token price is 1 GPB before going live and the actual coin price, based on the system, is at go-live 10p - the transition of 1:1 will lead to a big drop (in FIAT terms). Or would the ‘day 1’ price of the Safecoin somehow grandfather the token price in some way, so that they both marry together seamlessly at the start. Am sure I am missing something… and thanks for clarifying!!
Thats been answered…
the price of safecoin will be somewhat speculative to. The difference when the network goes live is you will be able to trade it for some amount of storage space. How much depends on how big the network is. For farmers its pretty flat cause either safecoin is not worth much but easy to get or requires more work but is more valuable because each coin gets you more space in exchange. There will only be a set number of safecoin so if you buy early and the network grows its prety safe to say there will be opertunity to exchange it for a higher price.
now with MAID we have no idea what exactly you will be able to trade it for and when in terms of storage space on the live network so it is way more speculative and the difference between MAID price and SAFE price could be very large in either direction.