MaidSafeCoin (MAID) - Price & Trading topic (Part 1)

Wild guess. But i expect usd2-3 on beta

I love reading your posts Mav. And I’m sure everyone else on the forum does too. However, this post is in my opinion, one of your best. As an investor, you need be completely aware of all the different variables that can affect a company. I, myself had about 90% of the variables you mentioned in this post but compared this project to other crypto companies like Ether, EOS, NEO. Probably should’ve compared Maidsafe to the major bluechip companies you mention in your post. For me two things stand out. First, I’m pretty concerned about one of your variables from Confidence/Risk. The variable is ‘regulatory environment is unclear’. Living in the US, I’m pretty concerned that Safe Network may be blocked or even shut down but I’m keeping my fingers crossed. But then second is your entire paragraph of Timing. I feel the same way. Too many unknowns so just follow the timeline of 25 years. But why only 5% chance? When a brilliant mind like yourself throws out a conservative number of 5%, it becomes a little bit concerning. Based off everything I’ve read in this post and other posts on the forum, I think this percentage should be much higher. Maybe 30-40% chance of capturing 30-40% market share. I think your analysis doesn’t need adjusting and I think ‘mildy’ successful companies should be in the 10-20B range. Assuming that the crypto market will continue to grow at exponential rates in the next 5-10 years. As far as timeline, I absolutely think the 12 years count towards the timeline of 25 years it takes for a company to become wildly successful. R&D is a huge part of a companies success. So I see exponential growth of the network once released. I think the Maidsafe team has a strong game plan to attract developers and users to the Network.


Sooner or later, some govenment will try it, thats for sure. Network has to be “too big to fail” by that time. Same as they cannot ban cars becouse some people use them in criminal activity.


If you believe in the fat protocol thesis, then the market cap of network could potentially be higher than those blue chip companies. (I’m sure most are aware but here is the link just in case Fat Protocols | Union Square Ventures), but who really knows.


The only way they could stop an invisible decentralized network like the Safe Net is to pass legislation, but they would never be able to enforce it. They would lack the resources. A google attack would also be useless. I think the government will complain about it, sure, blame dark web type activity, but in the end they will join the Safe network to protect their own secrets. Hopefully a decentralized Internet will create a Decentralized economy, which will eventually make Geo-politics a thing of the past.


Nah, won’t happen. Torrents have proven this is essentially impossible. To me (from a purely price perspective) the only regulatory risk is the exchanges being shut out. This is not a statement about the capacities or abilities of regulators, this is about the concrete technological aspects of the network.

I’m still completely confident the network will be delivered. So why only 5% chance of wild success? Probably that’s a bit too low, but 5% would mean going 100x current market cap. If I picked a bigger number, like 80%, we’d need to consider 2000x current market cap (or more). I’m not able to accept such extreme disparity between an imagined reality of 200,000% change and the ‘real’ reality which we have (mainly due to information asymmetry). So 5% it is. 5% is me conceding that maybe the market knows better than the speculators; I’m not so certain that I can simply ignore the crowd.

As I said, this is the first time I’ve put numbers to it, so I could have picked any number. Price speculation is not like the technology, where latency is a fact of physics and growth follows a relatively physics based trajectory. Speculation is not for me. I remember at the first bitcoin meetup I attended people were saying $1000 is a wildly and unimaginably successful future. That was 100x the price at the time, and bitcoin has obviously far surpassed that (peaking at 2000x that early price point). So 2000x is not unheard of.

As a related aside, my current economic interests are mostly to do with non-convexities (especially how they apply to externalities).


And even then, there’s decentralized exchanges that don’t have this risk, as well as p2p in-person matching websites, etc.

So no need to worry about this.

Just needs to launch :pray: That’s all


I agree with this way of looking at it. The linked post was good to read again too!

The technology and the team have always impressed me, right since before the crowd funding. A determination to deliver quality, well thought out, highly technical software is self evident.

The question remains about the ultimate use cases for the network. It could do everything from appeal to the Tor/torrent crowd only, it could appeal to the cryptocurrency private coiners, it could appeal for corporate data storage, it could appeal to home users fed up of security breaches. It could appeal to all of the aforementioned and many more. Each of these will impact on price and even tacit acceptance could cause 10x or 100x price increases, so it is really hard to call IMO. If it becomes defacto, then the price change will be more shocking than Bitcoin, imo.


Really nice post and link to mav’s earlier really nice post. There is a hell of a lot of blue sky here, but even the simplest deliverables make this network undervalued.

Going back to the ‘what will they deliver on’? and what does it mean for current pricing?

A slower, far more secure Dropbox. > 90%. Core tech proven with the exception of farming economics. Note that dropbox’ market cap is 10B give or take, so even if one assumes that the stock market is overvalued, there is at least a 10x multiple on current price, fully diluted if the network can get that market cap. It is however, not the same use case (large amounts of security non-sensitive syncing storage that gets updated often), so this must affect any pricing estimate. If safe is reasonably cheap, then storing unchanging data for security, like family photos is a massive upside. Data storage should be the pricing basis however as it is the only high confidence, well understood aspect of the network. It is however already enough for me to justify regular buy ins now.

We could continue…

Uncensorable email network. Same confidence as above, very difficult to say what this is worth. Part of the valuation of things like gmail is that they can be datamined, so this may not be monetizeable. However expected value >>0 for sure.

A ‘blockchained data validation solution’. Depends on consensus too so lower than the above confidence by whatever your confidence in parsec is. Although the network does not include timestamps, if the timestamps are in the document themselves it can be almost the same thing. Could possibly compete with factom type cryptos etc, but also with simply hashing your document and inserting into bitcoin transactions. I think the demand for this type of thing could be significant, but it will take time to figure out how to use it. So % of this market that safe is good for is another factor. Timestamping/notarizing is currently not priced in as a seriously valuable service for any crypto, but I believe it will grow. Still marginal value add x a few more risk factors.

Uncensorable media source that can replace some uses of torrents, some bits of youtube, facebook etc. Far more speculative, again with the caveat that the data service is not nearly as easy to monetize as the data mining. The ultimate impact on price here may be more equivalent to the price of network data service rather than the ‘media’ price tag on it.

… etc, etc. etc. In the end, for current value, most of the pie in the sky use cases suffer from the double factor of lower confidence, multiplied by the fact that even if safe can steal the market, it can’t necessarily steal more capitalization than the bulk data pricing because privacy prevents the same sort of monetizing. BUT, if it can deliver on many of the promises, the use of SAFEcoin as a currency in and of it’s own right becomes a low probability but potentially ‘more shocking’ than bitcoin.

Right now, the market seems to be saying, “x10 = $1B cap fully diluted”, implying high confidence that data storage will work but only steal a small fraction of a dropbox like service. I don’t think the market has considered storage aspects like family photos or videos that exceed even paid dropbox limits (currently mostly served by external HDs one drop away from disaster), and it certainly is not pricing in any chance of success on any of the more radical use cases. I think this is a deep and almost certain underestimation of the possibility of the network, hence still buying.


I agree with a lot of your points, @dask.

I think the most interesting and easiest to acquire markets is the “Uncensorable media source” market. An untraceable way to transfer media has a lot of application. The funds needed to upload much of it could likely be crowdsourced in a Patreon-like application by those with a good reputation in the community. In fact, I think a Patreon competitor would be an interesting early application as Patreon has started to make it clear they don’t want certain people on their platform.

As far as the email network goes, I would be interested to see the Maidsafe team contact the Protonmail team and see if there can be some collaboration there. That team seems highly ideological as far as moving towards a new private communication system, and it would be interesting if Maidsafe could get them on board in some manner. They have quite a following in the cybersecurity arena. Some cross promotion would be good for both sides.


Agreed. The twenty cent range means speculation has left the coin. Only true believers are left at this point. I suggest buying incrementally, until the coin goes to the moon. Which is a likely possibility, sooner or later, not based on technical analysis, but on human behaviour. :gorilla:


8.80. You serious? Now i feel like smoking something :grin:

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$8.80 is low-balling it. A rougher, even incorrect, but currently solid indicator for prediction is market cap.

Look at the top 10, 5, and 3 coins by m/c. M/c’s of $1.5B, $5B, and $20B…relative stable for some time. While each may not be at their ultimate lows (as I still expect many spectacular collapses), the overall sentiment is closer to a bottom than a top. I assume that we all agree that MAID/SAFE will be in one of those 3 categories in the next wave if the network is live/brand awareness is exponential. Just those 3 scenarios give coins priced at about $3.50, $11.50, and $46.

Initially, deflation may occur in the first periods of a live network, but it really depends on hoarding/liquidity and velocity of money/storage burns/app payments/etc. Regardless, you’re kidding yourself with these low-ball numbers if the network goes live doing what it’s supposed to do.

How about a $1T valuation (BTC already touched $333B) and 50% of the coins in distributed (no taking into account velocity of money)? $1150 per coin. And this is just getting started… What was the estimated market for crypto being touted around recently?


These estimations are worth less than the particles that were used to transmit them. “Somewhere between zero and the sky” is probably the most precise anybody with a bit of intellectual integrity should attempt.


I agree, but it’s nice have a little fun now and then too. “Zero and the sky” is too broad.
Anybody with any intellectual integrity probably shouldn’t backdoor an insult.


That’s obviously a false statement. Nobody is rolling a dice or using a random number generator to make these estimates. Such an approach would obviously be worthless. The methodologies used by the people making these estimates are given by the people making them. You may disagree with some of those methodologies, but saying that no amount of effort to carefully compare two or more assets with respect to one another is worth doing is nonsense.

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It amounts to less than rolling a dice. A dice is simple randomness, while adoption is based on feedback loops and, as such, is a highly nonlinear process. We’re out of luck even if we assume a stationary case (which is grossly oversimplifying the situation) because a small uncertainty about the parameters will lead to vastly different results over time. Like, billions of times different. And please note I assumed the simplest case, having a correct model and no change of parameters over time. Real life is infinitely more complex.

These predictions, however smart and educated they may sound, are pure bullshit, a result of a complete lack of understanding about the inherent intractability of the processes involved.

Your statement applies to pretty much any real world situation. The world is non-linear. You can predict it will take you 30 minutes to get to work today, and I’ll tell you how stupid you were for making such a prediction, since there could be extra traffic, there could be a car accident, or you could experience acute appendicitis on the way there. What a silly idiot you were, to have the temerity to predict how long it would take to go to work.

As humans, we deal with making predictions about the world given imperfect knowledge, and when we get it wrong, which we do constantly, because of the non-linearities of the world, we smile and move on. We don’t curl up in a hole and never predict anything. Eventually, our predictions converge with reality. We may need to modify those predictions as often as your local weatherman, but eventually they do converge. Just because you may need to modify them in the future is no reason to never make any predictions at all. You will lose the game of life doing that, as you’ll be surprised by every single thing that occurs. Even the sun coming up will surprise you.

This isn’t actually true. There are plenty of cases where we can make very good predictions, such as Jupiter’s orbit or the probability of a 350+ lbs person among 25 Americans. Stock returns and the likes of it don’t belong to this group.

Yes, as humans that’s what we do. It’s not a big problem unless that human is doing that while gambling with a few million people’s retirement accounts, planning for the 100-year flood, building for the next big earthquake, or giving people bullshit investment advice. At those times, the right thing to do is to transcend our human tendencies and look at the freaking math, which says: these things work fundamentally differently than counting fat Americans in a group.

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Gotta say, not loving your argument style and continued anti-American ranting. I predict you would be much more polite in person.