MaidSafe Dev Update - May 25, 2017

This does sound like a good philosophy.

Just full steam ahead into the real solutions

Resources (while growing) are still finite at the end of the day.

My 2Ā¢

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Just to add a different perspective btw, client only testnet by itself is a temporary solution. While I dont think anyone would vote to move resources working on MD to a temporary data persistence solution, generalising things can also basically stop progress for extended periods which ā€œmayā€ not always be good.

I think everyone feels that way and isnt something to just remove forever but more allow bugfixes/ API extensions to not come at the cost of starting from scratch.

Again no one is actually working on this right now. It is very much an idea that needs evaluated against time required when there is an idea cos there isnt even one that is flushed out right now cos everyone is working on MD right now anyways.

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I donā€™t understand much of all the data chains reading I just did but thatā€™s fine Iā€™m sure Iā€™m not alone :grin:
Is option A much more complex or simply more wordy? Does it make sense to go with the less complex option?

Could somebody who understands what they read shed some light please. (Key differences and benifits)
I feel like I fell off a cliff and went splat :laughing:

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Option A had a lot more time spent into it so has a lot more details already flushed for it. Option B has simulations and changes being worked on right now so its likely to see a lot more tweaks(doesnt mean the other one isnt likely to change ofc).

Overall though complex nature comes from various directions, what Option A aims to provide will make reasoning about things easier. Other one has a lot more cases to consider which might then be considered complex too.

Certainly would ā€œifā€ it holds through simulations cases and real world tests to be reliable.

Would be nice to take these discussions to the dev forum if possible so it doesnt get buried inside the dev update itself and new readers can hopefully catch the progression than hunt across threads.

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Completly agree keeping the update clean for newcomers.

Im not a dev. Would it not be counterproductive - to your and the dev team - to send the entire noob community over to your place (dev forum) with chips nā€™ beer to hound the crap out of you guys nā€™ gals?

What about us creating and mini-dev-forum in this community where topics like -

Data Chains - Option A64
Data Chains - General rules in an eventually consistent network26
Data Chains - Option B26

Are fleshed out, dumb questions asked and smarter community members take the lead and you guys jump in and contribute when things get woefully off-course.

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Iā€™m with @Mindphreaker and @Seneca.
Thanks for your hard work guys!

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I get where you are coming from but I think @Viv is right for any chance of following it all needs to be in one place.
In most cases you would be right but here I think it is so over most peopleā€™s heads very few will ask questions or comment itā€™s just too complicated.

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Just take it slow - its actually very well written, clear and concise with fairly simple vocabulary.
Iā€™m not going to kid on its dead easy but mostly what it is is new and different from the problems network engineers/architects normally have to deal with. Itā€™s not mind-blowingly complex, it just requires a little patience and logic and constantly reminding yourself ā€œThese are the ONLY rules/actions that this node is capable of following/performing to accomplish the task.ā€

Dunno if that helped or if I made myself sufficiently clear but Iā€™m knackered, its hot, I have a cold beer and a seat in the garden beckons - Thatā€™s yer lot for now :slight_smile:

EDIT: Oh and +1 for clean slate between testnets

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Indeed a second read has helped and I am sure after 2 more Iā€™ll be in a better place. I think it was the amount of information that caused an initial overload. Needed to unplug and reboot.

Is the thought process not to encourage more development?
Been said (somewhere) that folks are reluctant due to wipesā€¦ catch-22?

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Not really. One could easy re-upload it as long API is not changed. If it is breaking changes, then yes, it needs to be modify. But for now, there will be a lot of breaking changes. Once we hit Beta, thatā€™s when code becomes more stable, and leading to less repetitive development changes.

0.0.0

First digit version is major update breaking changes
Second digit version is major changes with no breaking changes.
Third digit version is minor changes with no breaking changes.

I think we should follow this suit to keep us inform if there are breaking changes or not.

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I get that but what do you think the motivation behind the idea is then, surely itā€™s not simply to save everyone from re-uploading their stuff. There must be more substance to the thought no?

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I donā€™t care about data until beta. Between now to Beta, all data will be lost period. Datachain that is being implemented, will have faulty issues too. In the end, we still have to re-upload it until datachain becomes stable.

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:grin: ok well Iā€™ll be the lone ranger thatā€™s thinks itā€™s a good idea and may attract more users to the tests.

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Not denying that. I agree that implementing it right now would attract more users, and more testing. Thatā€™s a good thing, but Iā€™m just stating the facts, it will fail in the next several or more testings.

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so we will have to rip it up and start again

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So a Blockchain, huh :slight_smile:

Pity we wont be able to call it chainless anymore. I liked the sound of it.

Anyways, great update! I appreiate them even if I get lost every now and then. Data chains I havent spent much time on yet, guess now is the time to catch up. Nomnom :fork_and_knife:

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This makes me wonder if individual data chains will grow to some huge size like the blockchain Bitcoin has or will they reset at some point?

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Arenā€™t they decentralized / spread out?

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David responded on another question HERE about Data Chains and it looks like option B might squash my question. :slight_smile:

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Data chains are very different to blockchain, for example only about 20 steps (blocks) will need to be retained by most vaults.

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