MaidSafe Dev Update - March 1, 2018

With regards to Q2: With regards to the total supply and how what is currently seen on the exchanges being a fraction of the issued amount, what fraction is on the exchanges vs the total issued amount? Can the issued coin be dumped on exchanges dramatically changing the traded volume? If so by whom? Sorry for the basic questions. If this is explained somewhere I’d be grateful if you could point the way.

Will try and answer some of these @chrisfostertv .
This video is a very early intro to Safecoin so won’t cover everything although we hope it be the beginning of some great discussions. The video will only be 2 mins but we have packed it with info.

There 1:1 transfer from MAID to Safecoin is not included. This is because it would time limit the video and stop us using it once Safecoin is live.

There is some limited discussion of the economic aspects but we felt these may be better explained in a longer form video further down the line.

Look forward to hearing your feedback once the video is live!

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Fantastic update. Awesome to read. Sounds like full steam ahead.

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There is a lot of topics on this subject, try and search for the subject in this forum.
Maybe this link can help you in the right direction, somebody else may have even better links.

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Thanks for the update! I’m sure this has been said a thousand times, but I really love the consistency of these updates and that you all keep an open communication stream with members. It provides stability and reliability, which separates it from many of its crypto cousins… and Welcome to the team @dwg74!!

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Future

  • Network cap of 4.3 Billion Safecoins
  • Each of these 4.3 Billion coins can sub-divided into 4.3 Billion pieces (like satoshis)

Current (MAID 1:1 conversion to Safecoin)

  • 453 Million MAID have been issued via ICO
  • 10.5 Million MAID are available to buy on Poloniex (2.31% of ICO or 0.023% of Network cap)

Key take aways

  1. The vast majority of ICO tokens are not available for public trade

  2. It will be extremely difficult to accumulate a horde of Safecoin (other than outright purchase), especially if your not a developer and/or you don’t start seriously Farming from the start (‘Pay the Producer’ is a wildcard at this point)

  3. If you want buying power on the Safenetwork, now is the time to purchase some of the 0.023% Network cap that is available on Poloniex.

The below chart reflects the full trading history of MAID on the Poloniex market…you will notice that currently, it is close to initial listing price relative to Bitcoin.

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On a semi-tangential note, I actually quite appreciate how MUE describes their coin economics. They also have a max supply of 4B coins. However, they outrightly state that the inflation rate is a max of 40 coins every 40 seconds, which translates into 130 years before total saturation. While I know that the details on the economics behind Safecoin are still being determined, I think it would be helpful if a similar description could help contextualize just how long it would likely take for 4.3B Safecoin to exist at once. That would help to make the point that people need not be concerned that once the network goes live there will be a massive influx of newly farmed coins (which I don’t think is what Chrisfostertv is implying here, but is a misunderstanding many have brought up before).

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I’m pretty sure this is not possible.

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It is likely impossible…

But many people get confused and think that it could happen. I’m simply suggesting that marketing materials (e.g., website, videos, etc.) layout in a clear way that 4.3B simultaneously existing Safecoin is unlikely to happen, and that it would likely take many decades to even get close to that circulation. Concise and to the point, kind of like this:

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as you already said yourself the safecoin economics would be needed to be specified to show mathematically that this is pretty much impossible …

the people not understanding it now in my experience didn’t bother enough to really think about it more than a split second … not sure if an ‘explanation’ changes anything (“okay - yeah reward is adapted but what if nonetheless it happens because people just don’t store data on safe anymore?”)

…if you can say ‘okay - lets assume only 1 out of a million stores 1MB every day and all humanity would stream 1GB of data every day - then it would level out at following amount of Coin: XX% and storage cost would be XX safecoin per MB - at a value of XX per safecoin that would make a price of X and a farming reward of X per GB of storage. Would you bother storing 1MB of data per day at that price? Neither will the other 999 999 in your million people…’ that would show how ridiculous such a scenario is … You could publish a table showing different relations of streamed data/storage costs/farming reward and enable the visitor of this site to put in differnt price levels of safecoin and it would be super easy to show that there is no way it won’t work out :wink: (neglecting the costs for permanent storage for a moment - just assuming that new Data will account for the overwhelming majority of costs …)

maybe something like this (in a rough version - just assuming all nodes to have a specified size and therefore a fixed likelihood of getting a coin for their service when delivering a chunk) really already is possible :thinking: @maidsafe …of course it would be super difficult to factor in caching and something like network growth / vaults of differnt sizes / reward functions but maybe with conservative assumptions already would be convincing … ?

ps: ofc no clue if it’s worth the non-neglectable workload involved with simulations necessary here just for delivering a table for people who don’t see it yet Oo … (though those simulations will probably need to be run anyway when it comes to safecoin implementation :innocent: )

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I think that sounds great! Maybe with a tag line that says something like “While there are a maximum 4.3B Safecoin, the probability that all would exist at once is less than ~x% over a multi-decade time horizon. Check out this table for more insight into Safecoin economics…”

Kind of what I’d be betting on. Under promise; over deliver, haha

Well, I guess that’s the burden of marketing: educating the uninformed. To a certain degree I think the burden is on those who get it to translate the knowledge in a clear, (more easily) digestible way for those that don’t (yet) get it. My two cents. :slight_smile:

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How big of a step to compute from data chains?

Huge. Never been done before (I think)

Etherium has GP compute from 2016.

It’s not really compute. It is just smart contract scripts. It is far too slow, by orders of magnitude, to be considered compute in a traditional sense.

SAFENetwork plan to add full compute capabilities, turning SAFENetwork into a huge super computer once enabled. How? Using close group consensus, you only need a handful of nodes to complete the operation, with certainty that it isn’t being faked.

I think the goals are quite different. Adding scripting to blockchains has quite a limited use case. Adding compute to a data network has many high impact use cases.

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Depends on how you want to implement it… Someone could implement the computing thing on app level as well - then it would be an app and not necessarily a core feature of safe

… But someone would need to care enough to do it :wink:

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A distributed, general purpose, compute network has not been done to my knowledge. As it hasn’t been done with data before (until SAFENetwork), it is safe to say it certainly hasn’t been combined with data storage.

The concept of just spitting out algorithms which can write privately and securely to a data store is a pretty exciting thought. It is like giving anyone easy access to a super computer, billed by usage. Whether that usage is big data processing or simply a small script, the same approach could be used. That is a big deal.

We need data first though. It is the platform which compute needs to build on (it needs to read in algorithms and output results). How compute is provided will be an interesting challenge for the team. We can be certain they won’t just hack it together though.

Btw, for something basic, non integrated/general purpose, once data is with us there are simple options. Asking people just to run a custom app with SAFENetwork access could provide such a service. The app could define code, input, output formats and then use SAFENetwork as a data store for transit. This would keep the logic in the app and would be a new custom, decoupled, layer on the SAFENetwork.

Edit: for the client app, obviously they would still have challenges for distributing code and input and verifying correctness. They could use safecoin to pay back storage costs + reward if correct data for example.

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Great minds think alike… :rofl:

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Only possible if exposed by Core Devs via an API, I would assume?

Not necessarily by Maidsafe either, as by that stage they are in competition with other Core Devs who might have some super genius types on board.

Well - seti@home does work without a blockchain and without safe
You just download your workload, do the calculations and upload the result afterwards

You could transfer the large data amounts through a ssh tunnel initiated through safe like the video chat app demonstrates… So you wouldn’t need to use that much storage on safe… you could have a look at how the others do it (I think gridcoin is another good starting point for research here ) but I don’t think it really is super difficult to be honest… Just a lot of work… To ensure correctness of the downloaded/uploaded data you could publish checksums either on safe or on a blockchain…

Ps: the challenge here probably is to protect the ones executing code from being attacked by malicious code…

Pps: I personally would even feel safer it it wasn’t a core feature to be honest… Because then there couldn’t be unexpected code executed on my machine when running a vault…

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