It’s quite interesting, how easily some dismiss such a great update and others see it as gold:

Thanks Maidsafe team for your hard work.

Can somebody please give me the command line of the vault the next we test the Network?

It feels so good to be on the SAFE Network every time…

`./safe_vault --help`

will print all available actions.

I guess that’s real world ADSL which is certainly the norm here in Australia.

I look forward to how you guys will solve this and the community feedback on browsing performance over ADSL whilst running a vault.

Edit:

We are now testing with the more fine-grained message prioritisation that distinguishes between messages that are essential to the integrity of the network and messages that can be dropped if the bandwidth is not enough.

They see the problem and already testing solutions…that’s why their the best Safenetwork Devs in the world

Cool. The same issue, of optimizing the use of asymmetric bandwidth, has been well-studied in the bittorrent world. For example: http://phix.me/dm/

EDIT: A quick-and-dirty approach could be to test each new vault to discriminate between ones with symmetric bandwidth (i.e., droplets) and the ones on ADSL. Then throttle down the latter’s transfer of data chunks. This would allow continued testing while future versions of safe_vault were given more capability for traffic shaping on those home connections and mobiles.

I think this will help SAFE to gain more trust from outsiders . Are there any drafts on this one? I can’t find anything in the RFC-channel on GitHub. Or is that RFC still work in progress?

Maybe looking into Project Maelstrom

http://blog.bittorrent.com/tag/maelstrom/

will give some insights to further progress…

I’m sure SAFE can benefit from inspirations

Yes it’s a couple of RFC’s actually being worked on as we type

There has been no mention of MVP for the last 3 weekly update. I guess it got pushed much further.

What are the minimum feature / specification of what you would call an MVP ?

Thank You for the update!

And it’s only the beginning, the future of safe network looks bright.

But I have some questions: Is it an approximate guess or a precise measurement and what formula did you use?

This is the total number of nodes that connected to the 200 nodes we wee running. There may have been slightly more.

Feel like doing some math here

With approximately 590 outside nodes joining the 200 droplets there is total 790 nodes. With group size of 32 there is a chance of approximately (589/789)^32=0.00008654168 an outside node does not join a single droplet (every time the outside node joins another outside node one node is removed from the set so the exact chance is slightly lower but we can take upper bound). Then we have a more than 0.9999 chance an outside node connects to at least one droplet.

Considering 590 outside nodes we have a (0.9999)^590>94% chance that all the outside nodes are connected to at least one droplet. Initially when joining the network an outside node has a bias towards joining one of the droplets? Depends a bit on the churn then if chance is even a little higher than 94% that all nodes are counted.

So we have about 5% chance that one or more nodes weren’t counted.

Ok, thanks.

I am trying to guess the total number of nodes in a safe network from the distance between a node name and its furthest node in the close group. Empirically I have determined the following approximate formula:

```
max_value / (distance / group_size)
```

where max_value is 2^512 - 1

If we average these values on several vaults we can get an estimated number of nodes. I found that the result can be improved by subtracting a fraction of the standard deviation of the measured values:

```
average - 0.3 * standard_deviation
```

**Do you have a more precise formula than this one?**

My simulations are open sourced on GitHub. Program is NodeCount.linq (sorry not rust but C#) and results are in NodeCount.xslx.

Here are examples of error percentages I got for different network sizes (from 1000 to 100000 nodes) and different counts of measuring nodes (from 12 to 48):

```
| Network | 12 nodes | 24 nodes | 36 nodes | 48 nodes |
|---------|----------|----------|----------|----------|
| 1 000 | 30.28 % | 13.06 % | 7.14 % | 2.86 % |
| 2 154 | 22.00 % | 9.03 % | 11.51 % | 4.85 % |
| 4 642 | 9.84 % | -0.77 % | 0.15 % | 1.15 % |
| 10 000 | 11.10 % | -0.83 % | -1.31 % | 1.37 % |
| 21 544 | 14.70 % | 2.06 % | -0.23 % | 0.66 % |
| 46 416 | 21.71 % | 2.52 % | -1.89 % | -4.01 % |
| 100 000 | 18.82 % | -2.05 % | 3.69 % | 1.32 % |
```

Clearly, the more measuring nodes are used, the better the result is.

Yes the more nodes then the more balanced the binary tree is (consider whole network as single binary tree). Initially there is huge imbalance but after a fe thousand it gets much better. When large enough distance measurements add to security. So if you get a close_group all pretty close then the network cna be considered “big enough” but we do not know that number just yet.

When we do then we can get some great statistics from it.

What are these exactly? You mean error to PUT, to GET? To reach an address with a message?

No, no network is running in my simulation.

My program only creates a set of 512 bits names, each representing a node. Then I compute the close group of a number of nodes and apply a formula supposed to compute the total number of nodes. Error percentage indicates the difference between the computed number and the real number of nodes of my simulation.

I can’t open this link. Anyone else?

It’s working on my end.