MaidSafe and project SAFE moving forward

[nicklambert]

Here you go @Artiscience

@nicklambert

Current monthly run rate is typically around £65k (this is mostly wages for our team of around 17) - we are very under resourced, the costs her possibly need to increase to circa £85k to grow the dev team and community managers/platform evangelists…etc… We have less than a couple of months left - this is £GBP, around 45 BTC and a small amount of MAID and excludes the excess MAID mentioned in the post.

[Artiscience]

Thanks a lot Nick! Did I also miss anyone Maidsafes remark on patreon style funding? I am kind of shocked that we are having this debate only few months before Maids age runs out of funds.

[nicklambert]

No worries. Regards Patreon funding, we haven’t made any at this point. As per other communication we are taking it all on board but not rushing to any decisions. With the use of MaidSafeCoin we now have a longer runway than only a few months.

[lightyear]

@whiteoutmashups

Daniel @dallyshalla why not have us create it? Could be a community-run forum for community development. We could be mods, along with @bluebird perhaps and Ben and @lightyear And @Seneca If he has time and anyone else who has shown proficiency in development.

I’d of course be very happy to help shape the developer experience for SAFE Network for App-Developers and core-contributors and -team-members alike (working with a few others under @Ross’s coordination to improve the documentation around all that). However, the proposal from @dallyshalla before of having a separate Forum, like Rust-Lang has, I am not so sure of. I see having those two forums with a split view but maybe we can ask some Rust people about their experience with it? I just don’t want to alienate people or divide the community – I think it is very good and useful for the entire core to see and be exposed to what the wider community is up to.

I am happy to discuss this going further!

[Jabba]

@dallyshalla

It’s the centralized group that brought in the guy to make a “kill switch”. If we decentralize the code development and acceptance that guy wouldn’t stand a chance.

I’m all for decentralising everything under the sun, but decentralisation requires proper coordination solutions.

Until safenet sets sail we need focus and direction. That’s what gets us to the point where we can find other, better ways to coordinate with horizontal rather the vertical information flow - which I agree, is a much better way of doing things.

At the end of the day, if we could decentralise safex we would all decide to get you back on track designing exclusively for safenet… I really wish you would. Can’t we just hash out whatever tech and political misgivings you have so we can put them behind us? Safenet needs you bro, the world needs safeexchange and you could do something that affects millions of lives. Dreams of something competitive on clearnet seem unrealistic and no one would have bought into safex if you’d said that from the start. Hear your own decentralist message and take pity on your holderz who only want you to do what you said you’d do. Please Daniel, if not for us, or yourself, do it for the whole damn world. Better to fail at something amazing than succeed at something sub par imo, especially while you’re young enough to dream and take crazy risks. This dream is big, don’t let frustration get the better of you, it’s worth sticking with isn’t it?

[whiteoutmashups]

@riddim

but i personally think you shouldn’t try to implement this unique human thing … it might just cause huge problems …

It’s not like it would be the default way SAFE login works or anything like that.

It would just be for other opt-in services. And If it ever was achieved, it would open up some amazing possibilities

[whiteoutmashups]

@lightyear

However, the proposal from @dallyshalla before of having a separate Forum, like Rust-Lang has, I am not so sure of.

Ok that sounds good, can we open a few new categories on this forum them? That are very specific to development of the network?

Like a “Routing” category, and a “Crust” category, and a “Vaults” and perhaps an “App Development” (I know I’d love that, so SASC and the other apps can share and benefit from some of the more technical discussions while coding against the stable droplet network) category and a few more.

Then we can share code and build on knowledge and try to start channeling our own energies into assisting the development of SAFE. Truly decentralize!!!

And it’s all on the same forum!

But it will take moderatorship to keep the conversations development-focused, so perhaps adding a few more mods who do development, to assist there? @lightyear and @bluebird immediately come to mind.

Speaking of @bluebird, perhaps a “Community Testnet” category is in order, to talk about testing it, the data held on it, logs for it, etc etc

[anon81773980]

If we use pi 3, then we need to add antenna plug. This will allow users to attach small antenna, to large antenna. But the problem with pi 3 how much data it can handle. It obviously cannot be the solution for Tower operators. It is a good solution for home to home operators.

But you’re right, the cost might be much higher than standard pi 3. The cost to make may be 35 to 75 dollars. It might be 100 dollar a box to earn at least 20 percent profits.

[Artiscience]

@lightyear

However, the proposal from @dallyshalla before of having a separate Forum, like Rust-Lang has, I am not so sure of.

Not too sure, but discussions on specific issues can take place via Github Issues, can´t they?

[bluebird]

@whiteoutmashups

Speaking of @bluebird, perhaps a “Community Testnet” category is in order, to talk about testing it, the data held on it, logs for it, etc etc

There is a topic for it and that is sufficient until there is more to do on it.

And by the way, I’m not interested in being a moderator.

[dirvine]

I think the RFC process is invaluable for detailed design discussions. This is how python PEP bitcoin BIP etc. all works. Seems tried and tested.

For code issues github issues are used a lot. So I am not sure how well a forum would work out. We tried several things like that in the past, but were not successful.

Our internal slack is very busy but many channels (not all) are private to let Engineers who maybe want some privacy to debate and discuss issues and code etc. It’s an awful lot of traffic per day though, an awful lot and hard to keep up with for many folks.

This forum does have higher level discussions on some parts and we answer questions hopefully well enough.

It always needs reworked and improved, but some of the deeper tech stuff maybe should be closer to the code in github etc.

[lightyear]

@Artiscience

Not too sure, but discussions on specific issues can take place via Github Issues, can´t they?

Yeah, I wouldn’t go for specific issues here, but more general development help here. Specifics should definitely stay on the appropriate tool of the project in question.

---

@whiteoutmashups

Ok that sounds good, can we open a few new categories on this forum them? That are very specific to development of the network?

I’m generally a fan of keeping the category tree thin and every new one should only happen because too many topics clutter the view and make a good case to separate them. That said, we do have a development-category and it has a rather broad definition that is probably good enough for now. Maybe just split the stuff that is directly in there right now (other than updates) into three sub categories: core, API and Apps? And generally clean it up (there’s a bunch of thing I wouldn’t expect in there if that was about the technical development itself).

---

And yes, I’m happy to help out there.

[Artiscience]

Totally forgot about your Slack (never saw it, heard about it though). Sounds like the perfect place to have deeper discussions on the coding part.

[bluebird]

@dirvine

@bluebird

The meshbox cannot be made from scratch:

Custom Pi 3 though is an option. Element 14 can do a lot there with the right idea. They have set up a supply chain process I spent some time there a few months back, but other events pulled me back. It is seemingly though do-able. Need t confirm costs but it looks reasonable.

You omitted the context of that quote. I don’t doubt that it can be done in principle. It can’t be done in a few months, and the bulk costs will make it prohibitive.

And anyway, you should be getting the MVP out asap rather than doing the hardware design of a cool new toy.

[anon81773980]

Yeah. I agree. It’s an idea for next year most likely.

[lightyear]

@dirvine

Our internal slack is very busy but many channels (not all) are private to let Engineers who maybe want some privacy to debate and discuss issues and code etc. It’s an awful lot of traffic per day though, an awful lot and hard to keep up with for many folks.

While we also internally use slack, I am a little afraid of that kind of use to be honest. For discussion slack is fine but actual decision-making it is bad. Slack is incredibly fast and for many things (like should it be called X or Y) totally sufficient but it is also very intransparent and requires an always-on-mentality or you just aren’t part of the decision making process anymore, as it is impossible to catch up later on what was decided and why. Which also makes it harder for part-time-contribution (for example from community members) as they are clearly left out of that.

I think the more formal RFC process, that you started, is very good and reviving the bug bounties are much better ways for a wider, transparent decision process.

I’d consider the part in this forum also more as a place for developers around the platform to come together share and help each other. Help each other understand the platform, its ideas and how to develop your thing (either as a patch or as an external app). Although deeply involved for a bit now, I still have big problems coming from the theoretical understanding of the routing to its actual practical implications and what they mean for me as a developer when designing on top of that. That’d be something I’d really like to discuss with other people.

[19eddyjohn75]

@dirvine @nicklambert there are a few people in this community who are interested in having a crowdsale/auction for public ID’s.

Could Maidsafe make it possible?

This is the rough sketch:

• People send money through Uphold.com transaction in this format (or what Maidsafe prefers)
• Public ID, Pin, Keyword, Password;
• Cost per public ID 10 + 5 for additional public ID’s or an auction
• 42 Days crowdsales with no fixed goal, so people can pump unlimited money and buy up as much public ID’s as they can.

Maidsafe makes a script that auto-create the purchased data, so all the user has to do is login with the details they provided.

I would propose an auction first and for 2 weeks the super rich can buy up slots with their public ID’s.

After that a 42 day crowdsale for the rest of the normal people to buy up their public ID’s.

This would also be handy for new people

@19eddyjohn75

I think that Maidsafe should also announce the crowdsale to http://www.cyber.fund & http://www.icocountdown.com if people are interested.

Whatever works best for Maidsafe, but can we please have this on rails within 2 weeks?

P.S. I would also help if we have an explanation video, so people know the benefits of an public ID. We could spread the message on forums like bitcointalk.org and other places. Public ID’s are huge, they basically say the new SAFE Network users, that they don’t need a Godaddy or even a ssl certificate (let’s just do some good marketing for this top quality product)

[Artiscience]

@19eddyjohn75

Public ID, Pin, Keyword, Password;

Can these be changed afterwards at all?

[19eddyjohn75]

Yes David indicated that you can change it, but they did not yet activate that feature.

[Jabba]

@19eddyjohn75

This is the rough sketch:- People send money through Uphold.com transaction in this format (or what Maidsafe prefers)- Public ID, Pin, Keyword, Password;- Cost per public ID 10 + 5 for additional public ID’s or an auction - 42 Days crowdsales with no fixed goal, so people can pump unlimited money and buy up as much public ID’s as they can.

Yes ok, I think even I’m sold on the idea now. I suppose it could potentially raise quite a lot even before a MVP and renewed interest in the ecosystem.

Fair play eddyjohn, solid commitment and determination to find alternatives.

Still, it’s 2 weeks of distraction… what if the good news is next week and we rocket up so their 24M is worth bundles more and they don’t need to worry?

Maybe they’re really calm and getting this FUD out of the way because they know more about what’s coming in the next couple of weeks?

Or maybe I’m just blindly optimistic lol.

I’m curious to see how maidsafe respond to this idea because it’s actually pretty good (better than I first thought for sure) and doesn’t require massive amounts of work.