Let's talk Tesla

This is where we can talk Tesla.

A tesla please😎,

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probably an electric car - yes :smiley: … maybe a tesla model 3 for having some coins left after the purchase :wink:
(but i like the renault zoe too - i especially like that they use the built-in converter that feeds the engine to charge the batteries too! Doing it like that you don’t carry around 2 converters and charging can be done insanely fast =) … very clever detail!)

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Plus the additional pleasure of knowing your car was subsidized by minimum wagers from the US (and your own country, if you live abroad). Nothing like the pleasure of knowing you were able to steal from the poor and it’s not only completely legal, but also praised by religious leaders, government bureaucrats and environmentalists alike!

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A post was merged into an existing topic: MaidSafe Dev Update 19 October 2015

What isn’t corrupt? Don’t get me wrong I make an effort to buy socially and environmentally responsibly but if you live in the modern age with any kind of amenities such as tech (I have an iPhone and apple uses tax havens and makes us citizens worse off for it) then you’re guilty. You aren’t implying you aren’t are you?

Guilty of what?

And therefore anything goes!

haha thx @polpolrene

@janitor what exactly is evil with using renewable energy …?
…since not renewable sources are subsided Way more, I don’t exactly see your point …? (e.g. look at http://priceofoil.org/fossil-fuel-subsidies/ …) … yes with oil, coal and stuff the subsidies are way better hidden … but they are immense … so burning oil in your car probably is no better …
(ooookay - using electric energy doesn’t mean renewable … but you Can use it with electricity generated by renewable sources … and since self-generated photovoltaic electricity costs ~1/3 of the electricity i can buy right now i definitely would try to charge it with my own energy :wink: )

@riddim,

  • energy can’t be “evil”. People can.
  • you’re very liberal with the term “renewable energy”. There’s nothing renewable about Tesla (are we supposed to stay on topic?). You plug that thing into the socket and it sucks energy from the grid. You can see on Wikipedia a breakdown of electric energy sources in the US. Everyone knows that Tesla owners pollute more than almost any other car (it’s not serious since today’s power generating plants aren’t that bad, but if you say you care maybe you should actually raise y our voice against the polluters).
  • fossil-fuel-subsidies: did I ever say I “support” subsidies? I complain against them and your counter-argument is there’s another place where they hand out free shit. Terminate the both fxxxing government programs! Cross that: terminate all government programs.
  • PV electricity is cost competitive: great! Although I suspect that is thanks to a similar thieving program designed to enrich the criminals or buy votes

agreed

yes … if energy comes from a power plant (if you are lucky a coal plant :open_mouth: ) then the over-all-pollution is horrible … no doubt … as i said i would try to make it better :wink:

absolutely … no matter what they try to do they make it always worse! …

You are wrong here - PV electricity has become way cheaper lately (PV-Cells are diodes … and therefore moor’s law applies :slight_smile: … [please don’t get into moor’s law now … I hate it and I say it only is true because people make it true … but spectacular it worked for so long =) ])
one KWh costs you in production ~7-15 €-Cents (depending how much power and what kind of modules and stuf…) … in germany one KWh costs ~30 cents right now …

…There does exist a thieving program … that causes the ~30cents per kWh but it does not benefit the PV-guys … it is our very poor designed “energy market” … and the ones making profit from it are large energy companies … and they try to discredit PV-generation and make people believe these 30 Cents are due to PV… -> politicians are right now trying to implement a tax on your self-produced energy cause the average people could save money by installing PV…

ps: in addition these 7-15 cents per kWh PV-energy are calculated for a life-time of 20 years (they do have 20 years warranty here) - these 20 years they must have at least 80% power generation the label says -> after that they still produce 80% of their initial energy … for free!

If PV is economic why the hell is the Green Robber Barron receiving subsidies for his battery factory? (I am curious if those subsidies are counted toward the low total cost of PV).
And why are there all those state programs that force state mandated feed in prices?

As for Tesla there appears to be no doubt that it’s expensive on taxpayers and it isn’t any greaner than the average VW (with cheat mode turned OFF).

in germany the feed in prices are between 8.53 and 12.30 cents per kWh … depending on how large the plant is :open_mouth: so here you don’t earn anything as an average guy …

I have no clue why this battery factory is subsided … probably because otherwise it would be built in china and then there wouldn’t be jobs + reputation be created … all kinds of large corporations get subsidies … e.g. automotive industry here in germany too xD i think they get special tax-rates and stuff … fumes don’t have to be as clean as in the US :wink:
Yes I think teslas aren’t the perfect example (i don’t understand why i need a 17" touchpad inside my car oO ) but e.g. the renault zoe is a very well made electric car … and way cheaper than a tesla =)

ps: sorry wanted to give you a source with numbers of production costs for pv but didn’t find a good link in english …

pps: and we are talking of electricity production in our cloudy germany … e.g. spain has 2x the sun energy! …

tesla is/will be soon offering a battery storage-system that is charged during day and discharged during night with your solar panels (so that you can use more of your self-generated energy at this low price) at 1/2 the price competitors are right now … so your tesla-subsidies destroy our industry :wink:

… the systems available on the market right now here are of course over-priced … but still … half the price is crazy :open_mouth:

ps: ok to be honest it’s just some small companies not an industry that will get into trouble … because of the high price not many people purchase such a energy-storage-system

Guilty of using any product or commodity that has some suffering or hardship behind it. And anything goes is exactly my point. Everyone is guilty of this so I have trouble understanding why you come across as knowing so much better as if it doesn’t also pertain to you.

Hardship and suffering? It may take hardship and suffering to take a dump (depending on what one ate before that). That doesn’t entitle the person to special consideration.
The problem is plunder. In case of the Green Robber Barron, all his business ventures are based on government-assisted plunder. Every single one, and we are not talking about accidental subsidies, but about strategic subsidies without which he couldn’t survive (be cash-positive) for 1 day.

You can’t possibly know if a product is subsidy-free or not. And even if you could, you may not be able to find a single manufacturer who does not get subsidies. If the government forces you to buy gasoline that contains (subsidized) ethanol, you can stop driving to work and have you and your family starve at home, or keep buying subsidized fuel. The choice is easy.

But for ones like Tesla you know with certainty and the amount of taxpayer money stolen per car is quite astonishing, so it is very different.

While most other business owners who receive subsidies are rightly despised (oil industry, for example) the Green Robber Baron is celebrated despite this thuggish behavior and higher pollution than gasoline and diesel powered cars.

Knowing that Tesla cars pollute more than others and also that every sold car makes your fellow men poorer, I can’t think of any reason for promoting or buying Tesla except psychological problems.

Haha, when it comes down to it I can’t say I don’t agree but we all have psyche problems ;). Mainly I think everyone likes the idea that you could charge your car with solar power (which be freeing besides being in tesla ecosystem for products and maintenance). Manufactoring even “renewable” tech is still heavily polluting and manufacturer waste management of emissions or any environmental pollutant is what really needs attention. Oh yeah and murder the government and do it again, yeah.

Great for stockholders like me if they indeed become more profitable :slight_smile:

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Tesla is the greatest big company in the world! Taking out big petrol is the definition of profit.

And certain great leaders from Europe developed excellent traffic infrastructure.

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A gun called Telsa loaded with a silver bullet, paid for in part by Toyota. Every event like Fukishima shows just how much organizations like Tesla are needed.