Kochs to spend 890 million trying to install puppets in next selection

According to the religion of national security citizens are not allowed to speculate on what might be a threat to national security. But its hard to imagine that places that dont have the speech and democracy nullufying doctrine of “money as speech” not having citizens seeing a national security threat to the US when people like the Kochs can spend 10x the hundred million they did last election to put pro mid east war puppets into power who will put in a pipeline, to make the mid East war less risky in an effort to expand empire.

This means less of ability to have people who want to scrap this empire notion in power and an increased risk of nuclear war over an obsolete petro house of cards.

With Cryptocurrency money is speech.

That won’t be debatable. If somebody says “let a billion dollars of mine become his” And the network hears such a command, It shall be. Nobody can stop it, nobody can interfere with it, nobody necessarily will even know what was said.

I don’t understand why Warren loves the movement so much. It seems so antithetical to everything he spouts.

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Nope states will automatic minimum tax billionair’s total assets and income at 5%, check their capital flight excuses and jail them and confiscate when they dont pay up. Having trillionairs will be blocked. One way or another people’s financial gains will begin to better approximate their contribution vice be based on inherited leverage.

Thats right I dont see SAFE as a tool to aid criminality but a means to limit it.

That rant had nothing to do with my reply…

Crypto has no borders. It is censor-proof. Done correctly it is untraceable.

Those are the facts. Your imaginary governments can pass whatever laws they want but crypto makes those laws pretty useless. If Bitcoin succeeds the way some think it might Satoshi could be the world’s first trillionaire. Good luck taxing him, Nobody even knows who he is.

I dont think you get it at all. You need to think of Yukos.

Every billionaire will face an out of pocket unending audit. Everything they have and do will be tracked. Alternatively they forfeit their wealth or face an audit that continues for the purpose of total confiscation. The idea that crypto coin will be a great tax evasion is idiotic, it just invites a state of total unending audit at the expense of the rich person. Youll learn pretty quickly that money isnt speech.

On the otherhand the crypto transparency platforms will aid in limiting the power of money and aid the audit process.

In most cases, You cannot confiscate crypto.

Only because it is impossible, not because of any politics or philosophy or anything. It is what it is…

How are these audits going to work? You won’t know what address I am using. There will be nobody to tell you which address I am using, because I made them up out of thin air.

Money is speech not because of some philosophical or politcal reason, It is speech because when I publish a message with transfer of value the value uncensorably transfers. Period. That is just how it works… You can call it whatever you want, but it doesn’t change the facts of the matter which is in a Crypto world, It works how it works, and not how Warren or anybody else wishes it works.

Its reciepts for every purchase and recievable and careful cummulative watching and eventually descrepencies lead to charges of tax evasion and money laundering that get sucessfully prosecuted.

Perhaps with Bitcoin, but not with Darkcoin… Not to mention all of the other accounting tricks it enables.

The simple truth Is that if you have a non-libertarian position in the post-crytpo universe, you will lose.

Freedom will win, quite simply because the technology allows it. If I can with a few clicks issue securities, anybody can. And right now - that technology is here and will only get better. The SEC may not like it – but a 7 year old can do it.

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It would be easier to tax away all the wealth .01 percent for the next 100 years tham to get rid of taxes. The wealthy will pay much more taxes in the coming years and be less able to hide wealth with shell games.

If you hide your money in the caymans at least somebody knows it is yours. You hide it in Bitcoin it is just a number in a table next to another number. And it is outside the jurisdiction of everybody – Because nobody knows what country the guy lives in who knows the magic private key number. (if anybody) That makes for a really nice shell game is you are a rich guy with money.

Nearly all features of the crytorevolution are taking powers away from the government. That is just the way it is. The rich will use it, and there is no stopping that…

The CIA, NSA etc have been servants of the rich, those are falling simply because even the current net has made them more transparent. But they are about to become much more transparent to the point of having their utility for the rich reversed.

As for the shell game, it only means no redress when the rich get conned themselves but it also tends to have that block ledger which doesnt go away and will end up as evidence in cased where the keys are successfully retrieved or taken- again transparency helps here. Also, any time the rich try to do something tangible in a way attached to their own lives, a tax charge or the implied charge will be waiting. It provides at best temporary cover, but its double edged with increasing liability in other ways.

The IRS used to do stuff like tell options purchasers that they had to pay the potential taxes on any options prior to the purchase.
We can expect they will put restrictions on the rate of conversion into stuff like dark coin with high tartiffs on any conversion in or out. They can pay the AMT level up front at every trade. These types of games will just lead to a much stricter tax code and criminalizing off balance sheet games, and crap like derivatives- could burst a huge bubble though. Expect a preemptive tax code. Crypto derivatives- sheer crap.

The rich don’t pay taxes. They shelter. The government facilitates the sheltering by making loopholes etc… There is no reason to believe that will ever change. The government is a servant of the rich.

If I shove my corporation’s revenue generating activities into a DAO I can generate my revenue outside of any physical jurisdiction. Nobody will know who has access to that money… Nobody even needs to know who set up the DAO…

There is no reason to believe that the behavoirs of the rich will change one bit. Cryptocurrencies and other Crytographic technologies just give them more tools to hide their wealth. If you think otherwise you are seriously delusional.

Yes, there are ways to make transparency with Cryptographic systems — But that is 5% compared to the 95% percent of the usages that facilitate privacy…

Cryptocurrencies are going to castrate the governments, but they will give liberty to all of world’s citizens, and it will not discriminate based on economic status. Koch brothers will get the same benefits that you or I get…

Tax sheltering is a function of progressive taxation. The loopholes are simply a more efficient means of achieving state aims. But government as the servant of the rich is simply government on its way to overthrow.

What you keep pointing to is the capital flight phenomena that the rich under capitalism use to pit states and people against each other in a race to the bottom. The solution is simple and the shell games dont escape it. Its Pickety’s proposed global tax on capital. The loop hole business ends with it. The rich under that system pay at least a couple points more than inflation every year on their total fortune including income, at least 5%. There is no loophole or bargaining. It begins to shrink non contributing wealthc and its parasitic influence. Under this system there is ultimately no place to hide useable wealth and trying to do so results in a long prison term for abuse of power.

You keep thinking of a DAO as a wealth scheme. You will compete with high quality free which will put a strong bar on a DAO as an earnings vehicle. The key part of DAO is that it could be more trustable, and thats simply not the case if its got a hanger on hanging off its ass.

People dont tolerate rich psychopaths too well and those are the ones that are increasingly being exposed. Think of Nixon scrapping peace with Vietnam offering more profit for keeping the war going and deliberately nixing peace talks. Transparent government which is coming turns down the influence of the rich to one person one vote and the strength of their arguments.

We need a wealth ceiling like FDR threatened.

I think you misunderstand DAO’s The trust is not in the DAO – the trust is in the mathematics that prevents the DAO from cheating… You have a contract that is mathematically enforced. You don’t need to trust the other party, or even know them - because the performance is stipulated and enforced by the contracts. Any technology is going to be use for profit if it can. This can - and it will. Rich will use it, because quite frankly they have the stuff to sell.

You keep talking about a coming transparent government… That quite simply is a pipe dream. It is about as likely to happen as lead turning into gold.

Your judgement is obviously flawed given that you think of SAFE as a DRM savior or DRM’s killer app. You seem to keep confusing opression and justice.

Nothing says DAO needs to involve contracts. There are alternatived. The smart contract element is far from the heart of the idea nor all that critical. The big revelation is providing endless services without the wasted and counter productive overhead of profit and conflict of interest of useless meddling owners. The idea comes alive when the DAO is an open source entity running on a digital commons of end user owned and controlled open source hardware and software. It isnt a means for disconnected parasites to get rich quick or stay rich…

You seem to overestimate the contribution of profit. Its pretty much a net negative today and against a well constructed open source DAO will be a price performance disadvantage and a deep conflict that makes a platform comparatively untrustable.

Check out the threads on this site involving insider Richard David Steele. Transparency is comming. Interesting to run public approval ratings on Anonymous- higher than most corprates or parties.

Not really… The fact that I posed a question doesn’t mean that is what I believe…

I am not confusing oppression with justice. Just saying that technology of any nature can be used for either. SAFE is skewed highly towards privacy and against transparency by nature. Yes, some leakers will use it. Leakers leak without it though, and by and large the public doesn’t care one ounce…

On the other hand SAFE will make hacking near impossible. In my book that is a insanely good thing. In your book everything should be public… That doesn’t fly… Stealing privacy is not justice — You are the one confused… You want tyranny for Koch flavored folks and liberty for normal flavored folks, but that isn’t how technology works It delivers liberty for everyone, and break the backs of the tyrannical governments…

Technology is morally agnositic. If you want to continue to argue , that is my only point. It can be used for good and it can be used for evil. Nobody needs permission to use SAFE, and they will do so no matter what their motive… Nobody gets to police the motives. By and large technology is used for PROFIT. If there is a profit to be had, folks are going to use it for that.

Check out Steele. Your idea of privacy is strange. Its about being unharrassed in your daily life. As for transparency all that was needed was an untraceable widespread means of instant disemination for a transparency revolution. That shell game version of privacy will find matching laws as wealth is still much more encumbered and leaves a record in the physical world.

The world knowing where my money is spent is a violation of my privacy.

You propose that we know where people’s money is spent.

“Only evil people” you might preface. But everybody has a different version of what “evil is” and tyranny is tyranny.

Liberty for all means privacy for all. Including the Koch Bros.

That is mildly interesting. I never considered that the Koch Bros deserved privacy nor did I think that they were operating without it - to a large extent they have their privacy. The thing is, the Koch Bros are openly and not so openly spending money to influence the political system. That political system purports to be by the people, for the people et cetera.

The second his/their money starts buying the minds and voting inclinations of people who are going to be creating legislation that they expect me to follow and which I will suffer penalties if I don’t then there is a problem and your right to privacy shouldn’t matter. If you buy the system and then pass it off as the will of the people then there is a problem. A pretty major problem.

That is why their are (were) laws governing how much you could donate in a political campaign and disclosure of those donations were required. The Kochs circumvented before and have expanded that reach with other violations of the elective protocol (I could post links if needed). My point is, where the Kochs are concerned, simply saying that they deserve privacy is missing the larger story of what they are doing and have done…

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You are either free or not.

Bribes etc ought to be illegal and prosecuted. But the press ought to be free in that anybody can publish a message as many times as they want with however many resources they want without asking permission from anybody.

The fact that the government puts itself up for sale is a problem with government – and the solution isn’t to restrict it’s citizen’s ability to express political thought without permission. The solution is to castrate the government so that it is no longer worth buying.