Is the Safecoin Economy Deflationary and would it be better with Inflation built in?

Why would one (assuming you’re NOT a banker or associated elite) want debt based currency? Why would you defend the concept of money = debt? There is more national debt to the banks than there are resources on the planet or that one could EVER pay off. The concept of money = debt is not mathamatically feasible. It’s insane! P = P + I does not work! If safecoin makes banks around the world collapse I say it’s the best thing that happened to humanity. It’ll have done what whole nations and wars have failed to do. It’ll do what civil wars and great patiots of various nations have failed to do and that is take down the banks. Fiat currency and the banking cartel have resulted in mass corruption and the usurping of power and oppression of multiple nations around the world for CENTURIES and here we are debating whether deflation or inflation is better? Forget anyone or any nation that wants to keep using fiat currency! Let them rot and go bankrupt for they deserve it. Safecoin offers an easy safe alternative and function entry point for the use of cryptocurrency and value based assets. The banks must burn! We cannot continue on like this. We need value based currencies. So what if there’s deflation? That’s just the currency value returning to normal. Compare the value of things (like a loaf of bread for example) back in the thirties, or even the 70s, or even 1990s, to what it is now and you’ll see the inflation and rise in cost. now imagine the reverse. Imagine spending a couple cents (or a fraction of a safecoin) for a sandwich or whatever. Imagine the reintroduction of the millray (or a crypto value equivalant). Are we so used to being sick we’re now afraid of being healthy?

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The question is “controlled by whom?”

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I moved 10 posts to a new topic: Climate change

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On the other hand one could argue that inflation is a mechanism which allows succeeding generations to participate in the economy the same way their parents and grandparents did. In a deflationary system the advantage for those joining the system first can be enormous. So it’s not all black and white.

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Not to mention the urge to buy new stuff. Have a look at elecronic products like computers, smartphones and so on. Even if people can expect that a certain gizmo will be cheaper in six months or two years (in inflation-adjusted prices), they will eventually buy it earlier. Be it because they have to or because they want.

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EVERYONE PLEASE KEEP THIS TO THE OP

Thanks.

The question is “controlled by whom?”

That’s an important question, but also going away from my question.

The early responses were very relevant, so if I had time I’d delete much of what had followed. If another mod would like to step in and clear out the rubbish, be my guest. :smile:

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Actually I think the control-issue is the answer to your question. Is deflation a problem? I´d say: yes, at some point it can become a real problem. The same way inflation can be really problematic, but it´s not a problem by itself.

Individuals can evade money politics, while a society can´t. I liked the idea that people can vote with their coins on inflation and deflation, because it allows the user to deal with monetary related social issues depending on their share. Still, if it becomes a real problem, people can always introduce a new currency, so it is no ultimate problem for society, only for the currency which is dropped.

We should leave currency manipulation to those who govern using force.

The only real benefit of inflation is that it achieves invisible taxation.

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There is a difference between natural inflation and artificial inflation and natural deflation and artificial deflation though.

Before the advent of cryptocurrencies most all money was artificial… The Central banks would set the money printing policy, and if it was right, you would be somewhere in the “low inflation” and if the policy was wrong, it would go nuts either way…

But with Cryptocurrencies it will be a natural inflation or deflation… It will naturally be slightly deflationary…(Coins get lost etc) but the value of the money will be floating simply because it floats, not because somebody set it someplace.

In an open source economy slight deflation ought to be okay because most things are always getting cheaper… Cryptocurrencies are a “language of value” and so far as it accomplishes that goal it is useful and effective.

[quote=“reivanen, post:35, topic:4799”]
The only real benefit of inflation is that it achieves invisible taxation.
[/quote] It also encourages spending today instead of tomorrow, which provides paychecks for the guy you buy from. Artificial demand for growth is not natural either though. It has environmental impacts and sustainability issues…

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Spending today instead of spending tomorrow describes a big part of what is wrong with the world today. And it leads to those issues you mentioned…

What ever happened to living in balance with nature, only taking what you need? Instead we not only take everything we can get our hands on, we also borrow from the future and sell our kids into debt slavery before they are born.

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Natural inflation? There is anything natural with cultural goods - and cryptocurrencies are clearly cultural. You probably mean fixed money supply, but in cultural practice that doesn’t really exist as well. If for any reason Bitcoins “natural” inflation would be problematic in a social context, there can always be a 51% consensus to fork to a different type of Bitcoin, so, no, algorithms don’t really matter, what matters is what the majority of miners (in case of Bitcoin) want and how important change is to them.

There is a reason why the consensus is crucial to Bitcoin and other decentralized technologies. The majority of network participants rule the network, not the other way around.

If you have a fixed money supply, inflation and deflation will happen as the economy grows and wanes – but only by the correct amount.

If somebody monkeys with the money supply, then you will get inflation and deflation of the wrong amount.

That goes for cryptocurrencies too - although monkeying with them is much harder than using a central bank to monkey with them. We are comparing something that could happen someday and everyone would know about it to something that happens everyday and few people know about it…

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You are comparing, I am not. You were talking about a difference “artificial” and “natural” inflation, which cleary doesn´t make any sense with a cultural good such as money. Anyway, we´re drifting OT again…

I think it is useful to distinguish monetary inflation/deflation from price inflation/deflation. I think there is always some natural degree of price inflation/deflation.

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Price inflation/deflation is also known as how the markets figure out the value of something.

The alternative is planned economy.

“managing” the currency supply (inflation) is one such method and has always, without exception, led to collapse of said system. Communist style managing product prices is another method with the same purpose, and similar track record.

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NO INFLATION!!

It makes money not make sense anymore…

look at what it’s doing to the dollar, etc!

Why introduce it into a perfect system like safecoin???

This is completely true, and

This is completely true.

Please let this possibility of inflation (which comes only from fear, not logic) die out right now before it threatens to destroy our entire perfect economic system of safecoin here.

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Don’t worry about it…it’s natural conver-flation…seriously though, unless done to deliberately hijack a thread, it is quite natural to veer off-topic sometimes…I think its unavoidable…I think we might make too much of this really and posts/topics can be moved off-topic by mods if it’s ridiculous.
I don’t think I’ve actually had a simplified break down of likely negative consequences of deflation on the less well off,maybe self-employed “man on the Street” - rather than the technical larger economic effects. Could anybody do this? :smiley:
Edit:
Is it just that “things” get cheaper, eventually including my own services, but that the entire Capitalist Fiat system collapses around me and there’s a good chance crypto-currencies come into their own?
If so, it reminds me of something Ricky Gervais said once when asked if he liked a funny clip showing an incident involving a dolphin and a bikini clad trainer.
“It’s a dolphin removing girls’ knickers – what’s not to like?

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Potential reorganizations and bankruptcies because companies get into trouble due to collapses in demand and higher real value of debts, leading to lower wages or unemployment. If banks get in trouble, capital controls and potential bail-ins. Severe deflation may also cause trouble in supply chains, which can lead to scarcity of common goods. Unwise governments raising taxes to make up for losses on VAT and such.

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Deflation only becomes a problem when there is not enough supply to be usefull. One solution to this problem is inflation. Inflation increases the supply and weakens value. Another solution to solve the problem is divisibility. Divisibility increases the supply and strengthens value.

What is the perfect amount of supply of any currency? The answer is any amount, so long as it can be divided infinitely.

Is there no way to create a currency with a completely stable value? Crypto currencies offer the potential of programming that value. I see that some want a currency increasing in value to help fuel early adoption. But maybe it should never change.

We have a situation akin to not having a stable meter or inch.