Is the community getting tired of maidsafe

I definitely think the API will be ready much much sooner than that because it is so important, and many apps like Decorum etc rely on it.

Also the MaidSafe team has expanded greatly with all the mils it has received, and has great people like npm dev @bochaco now working on it.

They are really ramping up how many people they have working on each area, and that will speed things up. They also realize how important it is to have apps, so I think API is high on their list.

Also they are providing basic things for apps to plug into, so it’s not like the API will be super complicated or too too hard. Mostly just core data types, things like that.

But you’re right that real, worthwhile app development can’t really start until the API is solid and quite finalized.

I’m hoping that this new Authenticator API paradigm is the final form :slight_smile:

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Also they need the API to be ready so that their new (and very important) Hong Kong partners can start making apps for SAFE, as was announced and is very important.

Depends what you need. The safe-fs API (high level file, directory and DNS etc) is already pretty stable and while it might change, not much I think.

In a month or so I would expect that the low level API will have reached its first solid iteration, so ready for the first generation of apps.

No API remains stable indefinitely. What matters is when people have built a lot on it. At that point it remains supported and often backwards compatible for some time and I think we are close to that point.

Now is a very good time to be building IMO. The first generation of developers will have a head start. Those who follow will also be in a very good position, until people realise this is going mainstream and then from there much less advantage.

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in terms of safe-js, do you think those things you mentioned won’t change, even in the face of the new Authenticator?

in terms of safe-fs, it should be much more than just uploading files with those commands; it’s displaying those files (e.g. things like displaying videos), making them shareable / public / searchable, and more. Many of these things I don’t think are possible yet, right?

I guess my main question is: If I built all of safe-fs right now with safe-js (assuming sufficient commands even exist yet), would I have to change any code down the line?

Yeah, I’m glad I only came onboard in early 2015, I can’t imagine the wait being much longer. But then again think of it like this, bitcoin launched in 2009 (10?) and its been 7 or 8 years and still no mainstream. But we don’t give up on bitcoin (well, unless segwit is activated, then I’ll give up) because it works. Since the beginning it works continuously, no hacks, uninterrupted. It grows and improves, and there is progress. Its the same with maidsafe.

Now, I admit going from C++ to Rust is somewhat of a backwards step, and it would be painful to watch. Somethings just need to be left from time to time and checked on. If you watch the grass grow you might get disappointed that its not growing, or some bug ate the root and killed your favorite patch. But in its season it will come, and when it does it will be right on time. What else can be said? If you’ve lost money, my condolences. Honestly, I don’t think there’s anyone who is serious about crypto that hasn’t lost some funds, somewhere. But if this works, this will be a moonshot like no other. I can’t fathom the growth of the first 10 years of this thing.

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There will I expect be some changes related to authentication, specifically how you specify the storage parameters (currently shared/private and so on). But those are minor. I would expect that the remainder (file operations) will remain largely or completely unchanged.

is @MaidSafe taking over development of safe-js?

direct my questions that way instead of to @joshuef ?

Speaking for myself, “impatience” was not the reason. I have always been and still am a supporter of Maidsafe. It was the “vision” and the ethos around crypto more generally to de-centralise authority/consensus, enable accountability to the larger community, provide transparency in Governance and give privacy back to the populace etc.
I have been banned from this (private, centralised, non- accountable to either the community or Maidsafe) forum for almost a year (latest ban) for calling to change things and making the case that we should be “walking the talk”.
I believe there are others on the sidelines who are supportive of Maidsafe but prefer not to support this forum for similar/related reasons.
Let’s not conflate support of Maidsafe with support of this forum - they are entirely different things. The community is much larger than this “forum”, which essentially has become just a noticeboard for a lot of people for development updates I think.

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WELCOME BACK!!!

missed you man it’s been forever what happened???

Thought you left us! :cry:

EDIT: sorry didn’t even read your whole post lol you explained it

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@Al_Kafir welcome back brother :grinning: You have been missed.

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Welcome back @Al_Kafir let’s just be happy to have so many other cool folk to talk to :wink: this is the least hostile place on the internet imo and we all want the same things! Privacy, security, and freedom

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Sometimes it’s good to just answer the question in the title. The answer for me is hell no :wink:

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lol…from your perspective perhaps - I have been banned for around 13 of the last 16 months! Forgive me if I don’t share your opinion… I also find the benevolent dictators argument to be extremely weak myself.[quote=“Nigel, post:103, topic:12159”]
Welcome back @Al_Kafir
[/quote]

Thanks but I’m not really back, I was just correcting a wrong impression. Conflict and debate are what engage people and attract users on forums…so I won’t be doing that here anymore… lol. (Btw, I notice @polpolrene quietly stopped posting forum user stats some time ago for some reason…hmmm…).
Personally I much prefer the Steemit idea where the person you are debating can’t just shoot you when they are losing. If I do engage anybody anytime, I shall move the argument to there for a fairer debate I think.
Cheers

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I agree and had a long argument saying the same thing over a year ago. It was pushed into ‘meta’ and the debate was squashed with the same arguments and pov that justifies our ridiculous social order in the outside world.

Yeah, there are a few people who will still only talk in PM.

Completely agree again. I think this community would and could have been bigger and more compelling, active/inclusive, even though it would also have been more chaotic, more complicated to manage, and less friendly as a consequence.

Folks like tonda and yourself were valuable creators of content for the community. I think there has been too much focus on keeping things clean and neat for the thousands of lurkers, without really recognising what it is that draws them back every day and builds the community… passion, argument etc. Things can get quite sterile and expensive in terms of losing content makers if moderation tolerance is too low. Or if people feel dis-empowered and that they don’t have a voice: like when debates are shifted into off topic or meta, or they get banned without any form of accountability for them to turn to.

The only reason I shut up about this debate was because Decorum came along and I saw the light.

If we try to fix this forum we’ll be sticking plasters all over it. It will be messy. It will take time to get right. And it is unnecessary because Harmen is working on the right kind of design to remove these issues, rather than trying to patch them.

Besides, there’s only something ‘wrong’ with the forum in the eyes of those who want it to be managed differently.

It is more than that and the moderators do a good job of making the forum into what they think it ought to be. I don’t want this to come across as an attack on the mods even though I agree with you. The forum is friendly and well-managed. It is just managed by people who want and need it to be manageable. They give up a lot of their time to it and it is a thankless job.

We’ll get a whole different kind of vibe on Decorum and that’s great. This place will still have it’s uses. And Decorum will open the door to a whole new kind of community… and at just the right time as it begins to really explode.

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But it is only like that because the hostility is squashed. And arguments are very compelling. :wink: The BCT threads I’ve visited most have been the big and passionate arguments. It’s like slowing down to see that car crash. Compelling is more important than useful, friendly and functional if your aim is to grow the community, in my experience anyway.

You can’t blame the mods though. It’s huge job for them as it is, and they do it in the spare time and for free. They don’t really have the resources to do it differently. We owe them a lot more thanks than we do criticism ofc. Although I can imagine after a 12 month ban I’d be as annoyed as Al-Kafir, whatever my offence was

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Welcome back @Al_Kafir I miss you so much “bad boy” :stuck_out_tongue:

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Thanks for that, I had all the same experiences you mentioned too.

This was the crux of the problem for me. Trying to sell the forum as run by the community for the community, when in fact it is a private enterprise is mis-selling. A “Community forum” for the “Safenet community” should be run and self directed by the community itself, particularly given the total raison d’etre of the software, Maidsafe’s vision and the general philosophy with these crypto projects. All of the problems that this whole crypto movement tries to address are demonstrated in the structure/governance of this forum.
PS, I hope you’re right about Decorum.

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I was under the impression the forum was set up by maidsafe and moderated by community members. Is that correct?

I get and have sympathy with the views on over-sanitisation, but I’m more interested in the “private enterprise” comment.

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@frabrunelle is admin and he’s working for Maidsafe as well. Maidsafe is also paying the bill and owning the domain (Maidsafe Foundation) since we went to the new (this) one. So overall, Maidsafe is “owning” this place but it’s driven by community members. All mods help out voluntarily and except from @frabrunelle no one from Maidsafe is directing/modding or anything like that.

It was started by a community member in 2014 though. So if someone feels the need for a 100% community owned forum again they should start one as this one is paid for and “owned” by the Maidsafe Foundation.

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This was not the case at the time of my last ban. After numerous attempts to establish who owned the forum, I learned it was Dallyshalla. Given this information I argued that this should not be the case and that it should be community or Maidsafe owned. I came up against a brick wall until eventually “somebody” saw the light and created the new forum. I was banned just prior to saying “I told you so”…lol
So what you are saying is that Maidsafe “inherited” the group of mods that neither they nor the community chose and that now these mods volunteer for Maidsafe?

So who is directing then if neither the community nor Maidsafe?
I see that this is all still as transparent as ever and it seems that those running it do not want to hand over the decision making to the larger community.
So let me get this straight, Maidsafe would prefer to pay for and support a centralised “community forum” with no accountability to the community whatsoever,rather than something that had the democratic consensus of the community?

OK, I believe Steemit will be introducing “community groups” this year. I think I’ll start a “SafeNetwork community” over there. I would fully expect Maidsafe to have no issues with posting their dev updates there too and for the Maidsafe Foundation to be supportive?
This way the members of the community that were originally attracted by the whole de-centralising thing can debate whatever they want without fear of being ousted, where the ethos is more akin to the whole general crypto thing.
.

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