Is Safecoin Money?


#1

In order to be considered real money it must have seven characteristics. The seventh characteristic being the most important.

1: Medium of exchange
2: Unit of account
3: Portable
4: Durable
5: Divisible
6: Fungible
7: Store of value


Will Safecoin have Intrinsic Value?
#2

I take it you are using a particular definition.

Money is anything that acts as a medium of exchange, and it is acceptance of something as a medium of change that makes it a store of value: I accept beans from you in lieu of goods, on the expectation that someone else will accept those beans - hence they act as a store of value.

Even gold, supposedly a prime example of a store of value, is really only of value because people believe someone somewhere will exchange something of utility for it. Store of value and medium of exchange are two sides of the same quality. Which in turn is an act of faith - belief in a promise or of sufficiently wide acceptance.

The others I would say are typical characteristics that have been found important or useful, and so will be selected for where there are alternatives, but they are not inherent. Law can make something into money, and that law might not decree all of those characteristics - though it would be pretty dumb not to! To create a less useful form of money than one could. I bet its been done though. I just read Martin Armstrong’s blog and he highlights the Japanese Emperors’ habit of issuing their own currency and devaluing the previous one’s currency by 90%, which lead to people switching to using rice for 600 years. So even law can’t gaurantee something is regarded and acccepted as money.

Is rice a store of value? Well, it depends what your best option is.

As for Safecoin, I don’t care if people call it money or not. It is backed by maths, the value of SAFEnetwork, and its potential utility for exchange, and so promises to be useful. If it is useful as a medium of exchange, the others will follow I would say.


#3

SAFEcoin will give money a few new characteristics and they are for the better.

8 Equal distribution
9 NOT Controlled By Humans :kissing_heart:
10 Programmable


#4

Safecoin is definitely a store of value, at the end of the day you can buy data storage with it and expect them to always buy you that any day. So this means that people can accept it as money, because eventually someone is going to need it.

Regarding fiat currencies today: they are made out of cloth and sometimes cloth is used for clothes other times to make the bills for currencies. (at least USD used to be made from blue jeans trimmings)

Regarding Safecoin: they are made to buy data and other times to trade amongst the people.

Safecoin is definitely a store of value.


#5

SAFEcoin doesn’t violate Mises regression theorem.

Safecoin is entity digital coin. It is a literally virtual digital coin, unlike bitcoin where it is just numbers that is printed, and approved by the miners. Over exaggeration here but just stating the obvious. Safecoin is indivisional which will become very hard to trade, and thus building limited market economy. But we shouldn’t view safecolin as a trading commodity but rather as resource money economy. There will be alt.coin in safenet such as bitcoin, bitshares, counter-party, etc, that preform well on public ledger. We all cannot make guarantees that safecoin will be the best crypto-coin in the world. Hindsight 20/20.


#6

Interesting topic guys, thanks for starting it!

My 2cents. First, I would like to make a difference between currency and money, because these words are used wrongly sometimes. Or, currency is what some people think is money, and that’s not completely true in my humble opinion.

Currency is a medium of exchange, a unit of account (it got numbers on it), it is portable, not very durable, divisible (so you can make change from it), fungible/interchangeable, easy usable, but! currency has no intrinsic value, and governments/central banks can print and issue it endlessly from thin air, so to say. QE, anyone? lol! Something for a different thread…

Money on the other hand, shares most characteristics with currency, but adds to it: store of value, maintains its purchasing power over a long period of time, is extremely durable and has intrinsic value.

By these definitions, only gold and silver currently have the right to proudly carry the moniker ‘money’. To conclude, it has to be seen if and when Safecoin can be considered being money.

I loved however to read how @19eddyjohn75 gives the money definition a modern twist by adding a few new characteristics, and they are indeed for the better, I have to admit. I would like to add #11 myself to this list (perhaps interchangeable with #8 of @19eddyjohn75).

8 Equal distribution
9 NOT Controlled By Humans
10 Programmable
11 Attainable/obtainable/available to everyone

My issue with gold is, however it is considered money by most, it is not available to everyone, by scarcity and price. Silver, though also scarce, is more friendly priced thus better obtainable for everyone. For both gold and silver however it has to be seen how much purchasing power it has, because buying bread and milk and vegetables with a silver coin might not be that easy. So for easy usable it’s not high on my list either.

Enter Safecoin again. Grab all definitions together, and I think Safecoin has a good change to become the best ‘money’ around in future. Again, my 2cents.


#7

I agree to be “money” you need to have intrinsic value of some kind not just “belief” value and the ability to exchange. A piece of paper with a note written on it is not money no matter how much everyone might agree it is. However given that safecoin cannot be produced until actual work is performed for the network and actual physical resources are expended then one can actually ascribe intrinsic value to safecoin and it is therefore money.


#8

Well, I’m with Martin Armstrong on gold not having intrinsic value.

Silver has practical industrial use, but gold’s is negligible - it’s value is entirely psychological.

I think the distinctions made are too arbitrary, too subjective, to be meaningful. Economics is I think very psychological, very poor science, and few experts or academics have anything valuable our useful to offer us.


Gold as a store of value
#9

But even with silver… it has industrial use, although that use isn’t universal. I hardly make use of silver in my day-to-day. Rice or some other basic food may fall under the definition of having intrinsic value but even then, are some people allergic to rice?

I vote all value is subjective and intrinsic value is bs. :smile:


#10

The reason for using gold is because it’s hard to make fake gold. It is such a dense metal that it is far difficult to counterfeit gold metal.

Kind of like how it is difficult to counterfeit bitcoins.


#11

It will be divisible in some manner - it must be, so it will be so. Other than that, what else do you think is being over-exaggerated?

SAFEcoin is also superior in privacy and anonymity to all other blockchain-based coins as it has no blockchain! Hence no record of past use.

If SAFEcoin isn’t the best thus far, then point me at something better.

Also important not to conflate ‘intrinsic’ with ‘tangible’ … crypto-currencies generally have many properties that make them useful as mediums of exchange and hence they have intrinsic value as derived from these properties. What many do not have is any tangible form (although even that has a workaround).


#12

Getting back on topic. Will Safecoin have intrinsic value and will it be a store of value?


#13

I think you misread what I said. I probably misinterpret it. I said it was over-exaggerated about the blockchain. Just bunch of numbers that is printed and approved by the numbers.


split this topic #14

2 posts were split to a new topic: Gold as a store of value


#15

[Update]

1: Medium of exchange
2: Unit of account (numbers for humans, PUTs for AIs/IOTs)
3: Portable (:brain: wallet :joy:)
4: Durable
5: Divisible
6: Fungible
7: Store of value (family pictures, secret company data)
8: Attainable/obtainable/available to everyone, including AIs/IOTs @MyLegacyKit
9: :partying_face: NOT Controlled By banks/risky humans (Hyperinflation) :crazy_face: or governments/pesky humans :kissing_heart: 4 disruption.
10: Programmable

SAFEcoin even gives extra dimensions to some characteristics.

:money_mouth_face:


#16

I would add one more - doesn’t violate Mises regression theorem due to having innate value (use-case) – as it can be used to purchase storage on the Safe Network. Many other crypto’s like bitcoin fail this theorem.

While it appears the theorem isn’t so valid anymore given that bitcoin and similar are used for some trade - but we will be able see and compare bitcoin versus safecoin to discover if Mises theorem holds in the longer term.


#17

I think store of value covers that, the funny thing is you can take that literally, because you can purchase storage and store data with emotional value etc. Even crazier your 1 SAFEcoin/PUTs that you use to buy publicID google could one day be worth mucho dinero.


#18

I think one day a collector historian might be interested to buy this worthless word from you in the future :wink:


#19

“What makes currency valuable is not the inherent worth of a physical asset, such as the precious metals in coins. It is the willingness of others to accept it. Money is, at bottom, a formilization of pure trust.”
---- Georg Frederich Knapp;(German Economist) “The State Theory of Money”.


#20

The distinction between “money” and “currency” is an extremely important one. I believe “money” is in fact money when it can be shown to operate as a store of value over extended periods of time. Gold and silver have long been exactly that.

This distinction is very nicely and completely explained in this video series (see below) by Mike Maloney. He also delves deeply into the monetary system as well. While his business is gold & silver, I don’t believe he would argue against the possibility of other stores of value such as MaidSafe coin.

When one understands how central banks and their “modern” monetary systems operate, one can begin to realize the utility of alternatives made possible through the MaidSafe network.