Is anybody preparing a YOUTUBE-like platform on SAFE already, or a twitter?

safeTube, may be heavily moderately.
safeVideos, may not be moderated at all.
safeClips, somewhere in the middle.

I can share my video on all of them if I choose and you can choose which you wish to view it on.


That’s a fair point. But it seems to me a very difficult economy to navigate. OK, it may benefit people like my brother, maybe. But we can’t forget, either, the people like me, who have no interest in providing content, but thoroughly enjoy the content by SOME of those super providers.

I mean, say what you will about them, but in many circumstances, they are super users because they are highly talented, and they’ve been compensated accordingly (and not just frivolously; lots of good education and scientifically minded users). And that compensation they are already receiving is not going to just go away…

I’m not saying it can’t be done…I just don’t have the vision for it. But then again, if I did, maybe my name would be on par with the Zuckerbergs or Irvines :grinning: of the world.

But I DO think it is a vitally important sector to consider.

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My concern isn’t that it can’t be done, instead it’s that it’s difficult to do well. If someone is developing a youtube like alternative a poorly moderated site could push people away from the platform. I would just hate to see a good service ruined by malicious (or apathetic) people.

I just had a look at and after seeing what they have managed to do I’m pretty impressed. Their app is pretty snazzy too. Maybe it’s not as difficult as I am imagining it to be.

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I think one way to help solve this is be able to trust a content creator and those they have trusted. This way over time you build a network of trusted content creators. You’d be much less likely to run into problematic material if you were operating with in trusted networks of content creators. This avoids centralized curation as well.


Nice chat here…

Just not to be silent here… lol

What if a person can´t code but I has a good idea? Do you guys have thought of some ways to pick up ideas from people here, we develop together and we all have a share of things that might have an impact in the SAFE Network and in the world?

We have seen ideas being really successful , to the billions , in this industry.!

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I’ve been baited again. Whenever PtP comes up I have to talk about it. :joy:

There are a lot of variables in thinking about this that make it hard to know what will work and what unexpected consequences come from it all but I am for PtP or maybe a flavor of PtP. I could explain it all here but I already got into the weeds here if you’re interested to look.

I would like to see a system where basically everyday users that find content they like or deem valuable could earn PtP or some other token incentive for digitally distributing/curating content, as well as the artist/uploader (like your brother) of the content that is being shared.


I think the idea here is something like Beyonce (for example) is very talented so deserves the 100 million views, the billboards, general veneration? I wouldn’t dispute the talent, but the current way people are recognised for their talent and compensated for it hides the larger truth: there are a shockingly large amount of people with that amount of talent. It’s some complicated mixture of celebrity culture, the normal capitalist tendency towards monopoly working on the music industry, and probably some other stuff, that leads to this fact being hard to see.

My evidence for this claim is the last three odd years working as a music teacher, I do lots of improvisation, composition, song-writing, etc with my students, teaching various instruments. It’s genuinely shocking the talent that exists in the world. It’s happened with at least 4 or 5 of my students, ranging in age from 11 to 60, where I have the experience of them singing me a song they wrote or a cover of something, and I’m left speechless, there’s been times where I have to fight back tears at the beauty of the thing. And, to be specific, literally as good/interesting/talented as Beyonce, or whoever.

And we’re talking about a very random selection of people who just happened to contact me about music lessons. I think it might very well be the case in other things too, like art, writing, academia, whatever, but if you take just music and the ridiculous amount of people with serious talent and lots to express, and then think about how rewards are currently structured, about how hard it is for a musician to make a living, it’s a very grim picture.

My experience suggests that the only way anyone could think the music industry is structured in some sort of way that fairly rewards talent must have little experience of the talent that is out there. Which is a massive shame, and suggests that our world could be a LOT more wonderful and interesting if only we could somehow break these monopolies and give everyone a more level playing field.

I am hoping SAFE achieves that, by essentially cutting out the middleman and making it loads easier for musicians (artists, writers, diy videomakers, etc) to produce quality stuff and be directly rewarded by people who appreciate it.


You hit the nail on the head. I’m a hobby musician at this point but I used to be in a few bands and a couple of those we really strived to be completely original and unique. We would play a lot of local shows and then throughout the state, just short of getting a professional band manager but learned a lot playing with other bands that did well enough. I would hear often that we were people’s favorite because we were quite different. One of the band mates had met an AR (artist recruiter) at a concert and had her listen to some of our music and look at some photo shots we had, not quite a press kit but a rough one, she said we didn’t have a definitive style musically or visually, lol. We definitely had a definitive sound though, tonally you knew it was us every time. So we didn’t fit the mold in her eyes and I’m pretty sure that would have been the same for any other AR.

I want to build a platform that allows anyone to be heard (JAMS), and a complimentary platform that allows artists that are established to get verified and give them the tools they need to succeed (JAMStand) and possibly make JAMStand a collaboratively owned app where every musician is a shareholder in the rewards, vote on the apps future direction and features, etc so that musicians big and small are in the driver seat and hopefully working somewhat democratically. It’s a big task and mostly conceptual besides some wireframes and a lot of notes right now but it will be my mission.

All the music would be on JAMS but the tools for verified artists on JAMStand wouldn’t be available to anyone who uploads on JAMS, besides listener metrics/analytics (when that gets added). I’m not sure that is completely right or wrong. What I would prefer is to make a new artist a verified artist as well but trying to verify that they ARE’NT established seems much harder than proving an artist IS established. Just for context, there would be some process (probably automated, possibly manual or hybrid) that the artist would have to prove through the direct ownership of multiple verified social media accounts. I have a lot to learn here still but that is the general idea currently.

I’m always open to more ideas or if anyone feels they have any experience in any area of what I’m blabbing about, please feel free to reach out.


You will need to have perfect understanding of SAFE internals.
It is almost impossible without deep knowledge about how computers work.

You can, of course, share any ideas.
But if developers will see lots of ideas, which are impossible to implement, that may demoralise them.


Basically farming rewards those who use their resources to help the network

Some form of PtP rewards those who provide content that people want to see.

From a very simple view they work together to get the network adopted. No content no farming, no farming no content

While its true some will provide vaults if there was not farming and its also true some will provide content if no rewards. But for the vast majority in a sustained way there needs to be rewards for both.

Yes rewards for content can be varied, be it the joy of it, for business, for the tips. And PtP is a new idea where the network pays a reward for the person feeding it content that also others like to view/listen/read.

That is the concept at its basic. How it is done finally is up to us to determine. Network pays enough to actually fund it, network pays a small reward akin to dev rewards (small requiring a lot of usage to earn) or tipping (automated or not) OR a combination of it all

Lets work on a concept that is useful and attracts quality content to safe.

A youtube/video maintainer will be a great way to attract content especially if people can be rewarded for it by some mechanism. And SAFE would mean that the APP is personal and not under control of some mega company.


Maybe such an app could be community funded. It would be a form of advertising for the network as a whole.


Just catching up on this thread.

Interesting ideas, something I’ve actually been meaning to reach out to you for a while about @Nigel. I think you’re right about needing complimentary apps.

I think I was imagining the two key apps having slightly different roles to what you mention here, if I understood correctly, a bit more like the model @neo was imagining above. I’ll elaborate in relation to music, but of course no reason why the same model couldn’t apply to video or anything else.

As a musician, band, whatever, the first app would help me upload and manage my music within my account, and also enable people to directly stream the music from my account, perhaps for payments building up to a threshold where the listener had ‘bought’ the track/album. This would probably be a web app with lots of personalisation options for artwork, lyrics, smart contracts etc etc. A bit like Bandcamp I suppose. Essentially a CMS tailored towards a (music) scenario. It’s also something that could be done almost at network level and integrated into SAFE Network App.

However, this leaves the problem for the listener of discovering that site (and discovering music in general,) and also having a seamless listening experience where as a listener I can access everything within my music player app to make playlists, cue up tracks etc etc.

This is where the second app would come in, which would be more like Spotify, or Tidal or whatever, and it’s primary purpose would be curation/aggregation, and, as you mention, probably verification as well. Like a traditional music shop, it would be able to add a mark-up charge onto the original artist’s price.

The interesting and challenging part would be how these two apps interact. On a basic level we can imagine it like an embedded youtube video, so all the music player app needs from the artist page is an artwork thumbnail. It probably gets a bit more tricky when we think about aligning pricing structures (the listener doesn’t want to be challenged every track to authorise a payment etc.) It would also need thinking about on a technical level as to what the best way is for the ‘middleman’ to add their mark-up.

However, a set of network protocols for these sort of things across different types of media would be really powerful, and allow a very easy experience for the listener to switch platforms, and for the artist to link to different platforms as well (currently there is not much choice for either, and even trying to upload your music to a few streaming services is a nightmare for an artist.)

I’ve been working quite a lot lately (for a different purpose) on finding the best way to do ‘theming’ (using Vue,) so what I’m hoping to do at some point is make a SAFE site to upload my own music, but with a view to doing it in such a way that it can be adapted for other people to do the same (the ‘Bandcamp’ side of the app I mentioned above.)

My coding has thus far been pretty messy and experimental so I haven’t got anything up on Github, but anything I do will eventually be open-source, and I’m certainly of the opinion that collaboration is better than competition, and this is an area I’d be interested in working with people on, even if it’s just sharing ideas about good ways to structure things.


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Agree full heartedly.

Your comment on it (JAMStand) being like a CMS but catered to music is an excellent way of describing it. I am looking to go really far here and there are a lot of services like band camp that have served artists pretty well that I am drawing inspiration from. So an amalgamation of these ideas into two separate avenues.

How they’ll work together is somewhat of a question still but considering the way data is structured to not be owned by an app in SAFE should be pretty straight forward, especially with the use of labels. So I think for the best compatibility it really comes down to how you store the data and interact with the way you stored it.

I’ll probably have more of a response after I have my coffee :joy:

Thanks for the reply!

10 Likes is not decentralized I guess. I cannot contribute to network .

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Yeah, sounds like you’re on the same wavelength when you describe it like that.

Agree that SAFE does most of the work when it comes to structuring things in a modular way, but still seems like a few basic conventions could be very useful. With a few apps on the go, the little differences could become a nightmare for both listeners and artists to negotiate, and then that’s when I worry things start moving closer to the current monopoly situations. Having started to do a bit of coding, I feel like I see that lack of co-ordination all over the place.


Excellent points and these conventions should probably be shared by the app developers whether open source or not. JAMS will be open sourced btw, I’m just wanting to give ourselves the chance to grab a domain we like and get it up and established as the original before that happens.


You can’t prove a negative… equally nothing can’t be done… there’s always a solution, especially where there is a good base to work from.

The current internet is too far from perfect and corrupted by lack of security; privacy; and freedom.

What you’re noting is difference of opinion… the management of opinion, is an interesting problem but it’s solvable. The hard aspect would be access to what has not been accessed, which is the same for any environment.

In time, it is to be expected that moderation services will arise, that do filter content that people choose not to want. The difference should be that it is the users choice, which opinions they subscribe to.

There is no reason for example that some mix of AI default + random_gov + random_groups + random_individuals, cannot provide an overlap of opinion that provides a simple consensus. More interesting than simple consensus though is that which is difference of opinion and that’s one of the drivers of change. Where one authority dominates the conversation becomes dull. There’s alsorts of options that can arise - it would be easy to argue that random_gov should feel obliged to provide an opinion, to which people could subscribe… serving a useful function against a mandate then which would be novel for too many…

Worth noting that one interesting feature of SAFE, is that you only need to do opinion/xor once, which is a lot less work for media. If moderation is possible in any environment, then I cannot see why is should not be possible on SAFE. A browser could accommodate the users preferred choice of what they choose to do. Personally I wouldn’t mind obliging people to subscribe to a .gov authority that did exclude certain content proactively - with option to switch to another at the users choice. (off topic but the concept of being bound by happening of location, seems daft where options to be free make more sense - next gen .gov perhaps will see something more flexible and representative, though so much of what we need is about defense of health and wealth local to us, still defence of arbitrary boundaries is silly)

Where the genuine interests of the majority exist, the minority will always struggle. A small amount of effort from those who have an interest in resisting nonsense versus the cost and effort to disrupt - it’s not an equal fight.

The point is made, the world does suffer with lazy people who will not make effort and others who will look to resist change and exploit others - reasons the economy is in such a state but still, what is continuous are those good efforts to make a better world - the risk perhaps is the SAFE will make that different more apparent. Know your enemy; understand the problem - perhaps only then the world progresses. The illusion of moderation at the expense of freedom, is increasingly a problem in an unSAFE world - the narrative driven by increasingly dull thinking only makes the case for a SAFE environment more compelling.

That was longer than intended! :smiley:


I wondered only about a simple app that would be like ye olde .plan; so, a single statement per user that would be their current state. That is to my mind twitter without the clutter of history. Long while since I looked at it but mutable field per user would be equivalent. I wonder that per user mutable fields might be useful for key data like language preference… but others seem wary of providing too much of that kind of base because the sum of such would be UUID and risk privacy.

This reminds me of something that I was confident must exist, but I don’t think I know how to accurately describe, and therefore find, it…

It seems to me that content producers & consumers could use bittorrent technology right now to share the content. I believe I have seen bittorrent clients that include a video player. I don’t think I’ve seen bittorrent clients that allow someone to subscribe to like an RSS type feed of torrent files uploaded, or hosted initially, by the content creator.

I would think that this exists already, but when I’ve tried to find it, I’ve had no luck.

I would think content creators who share their stuff for free, who don’t want to rely on others to censor or not, and who don’t want to pay for the hosting of it all, would be interested in something like this. They could use Youtube as an advertisement pointing toward their torrent subscription page.

They wouldn’t even need to host all their content, as once it’s out there, it’ll likely stay available (assuming a few people value it).

Maybe someone like Joe Rogan who is paid a fortune for exclusive hosting rights to his content wouldn’t be interested, but someone like Stefan Molyneux who has no idea how many times he’ll have to re-submit his videos to youtube, or why or how many times they’ll remove them, would be.

I am completely confident that SAFE Network will provide something superior in many ways than whatever is out there today, but I think the bittorrent usage with a client that can subscribe to a torrent feed would be available now, and would work for those who just don’t want to be deplatformed.

Maybe the content creators could release the original version via SAFE Network or Bittorrent, and then put the edited for Youtube version on Youtube with a link to get the real version.