that’s exactly what killed Digg
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@seneca, am I right in thinking that now PDC have increased by a factor of >10 since the crowdsale that when Clikes are released it ought to be be profitable to mine them from the get-go?
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Um. PDC are up 10 x ico ? Really?
Yeah around there. Because the original crowdsale was pretty small, I think $400k original crowdsale size & also the underlying BTC price rise
Under 1c at ICO, , bounced between 11 and 18 cents for the last 48 hours.
I measure the value in bitcoins. I guess it’s 1,5x the value in bitcoins.
But as bitcoins raised so much, in dollars it’s about 10 times.
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I measure things in fiat as the most stable marker of value. Surely it must distort your view of things to see the BTC value as the baseline when BTC is so volatile and has risen by 100s of %?
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but measuring against BTC shows actual gains of this actual project, that are independent of BTC changes.
So I’d say it’s a better way to just measure a project’s progress, than just the underlying BTC hodling performance
Im with Jabba.
I parted with btc when i invested so its price is irrelevant to me.
Though i understand it can be viewed many ways.
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To me it all depends on what you are trying to measure.
To measure against BTC is the best relative measurement against all of crypto
To measure against fiat is the best relative measurement of wealth or (at this time) usable value.
The rise in value of BTC can be seen as the increase in participation rate in all of crypto since BTC is the main entry point into crypto for most people. So the rise in fiat value is not necessarily a measure the project’s success but rather a an indication of the increased involvement by people in crypto
Put another way if I want to measure my trading performance and I use fiat then I could have lost 3/4 of my original BTC from years ago yet still claim I am a great trader getting a double increase in fiat. But its obvious I am a loser.
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I’m not 100% sure that I agree with this.
Each crypto project has its own unique attributes. I’m not sure why BTC gets to hold the yardstick? You can actually buy most cryptos with fiat these days, plenty of ICOs require only Eth to participate, which people can buy with fiat from most of the big exchanges. Bitcoin is just one bockchain and it has risen or stagnated for it’s own reasons. I don’t think it’s fair to measure value against anything that unstable tbh and going back to my response that was what I was surprised to hear. Perhaps you can use BTC as a relative measure of performance, but it would utterly distort your sense of value as a baseline, wouldn’t it? [quote=“capivarao, post:169, topic:6119”]
I measure the value in bitcoins
[/quote] My surprise came at use of the word ‘value’
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I’m not saying its perfect or how good it is, just its the best (single) measurement at this time (things could change tomorrow 
). As opposed to measuring against fiat.
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I know what you mean and I agree that it is a potentially useful measure, but certainly not the best. I still think their own relative values all taken in fiat probably gives more useful information (about performance and value).
Don’t forget, before this 2017 crypto bull run Maid had fallen way down from her 12c ATH of the previous bubble. To look at only the BTC change over the period would tell you it had been stagnant since we were at 20k sats at the end of 2015. That is of course not the case though, we dropped and rose by huge margins, and when BTC pumped we dumped, it didn’t take us with it. MAID climbed back slowly off the back of it’s own work, it wasn’t dragged up by BTC values… although it was dragged up by the general crypto explosion
I’d say the only time to measure in BTC is if you’re margin trading, at least then you are necessarily working with BTC as a baseline. Otherwise I’ll make the argument for fiat all day long.
Each to their own though, I just see very little use for the BTC yardstick in my day-to-day in crypto since I stopped doing much trading. 
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Nope and the simple example will show you.
I have a coin ABCDEF and say 6 months ago it was worth 1 BTC per coin. Fiat about $800 per coin
NOW say its worth 1000$ per coin (approx 1/3 BTC per coin). Has this coin improved or not? By comparing with fiat it has improved BUT
Nope, while it has not collapsed it has done a lot worse compared to BTC and all other crypto. It has gone backwards. It only improved in fiat value because the whole crypto market has jumped 2.5 to 4 times.
BUT if you want to see how much value your collection of coin is then fiat is good.
See, I would disagree again 
I would say it certainly had increased in value. Why is it relevant that it has done a lot worse comapred to BTC? How is that really useful as the baseline of crypto? It’s performance relative to bitcoin is no more relevant than its performance next to Eth or XYZ.
In the example you give to use BTC as a measure would give very misleading results. In actual fact what has happened there is exactly what you said, the value of your holdings has gone from $800 to $1000. All of the other stuff in the world has gone down in BTC price too, so the ‘value’ is all that should really matter to most people. The only thing BTC shows you is the relative performance against BTC… I really don’t see that as very useful info and I would still say the best measure in the above example (of both value and relative performance)is the one you gave… your ABCDEF coin has gone from $800 to $1000 whilst BTC has gone from $x to $x.
EDIT: Anyway, I know you’ve been trading a bit recently, which means getting your hands on more BTC in the game. I can see why in your position you’d be using BTC more, I’m just resistant because I almost never do nowadays - except for checking charts on polo ofc.
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Good for traders estimate of value. There is no indication that money has been invested in the project. Actually BTC has been taken out of that coin. So in fact it has lost nearly 2000$ per coin compared to coins that has kept up. In fact if it continued down the same projected path it would start to reduce in value while BTC increased. Remember that the coin is traded against BTC and not fiat.
Lets take the 66.7% drop over 6 months. In another 6 months its at 1/9 BTC per coin. And say BTC only rises by 10-100%, some say its downhill from here for a year or two. Lets say BTC is $4000 in six months (generours estimate) then the coin is $444 per coin.
So I’d say its failing.
tl;dr
How you measure your coins is largely dependent on what you are trying to achieve.
Actually, I’d say there is because traders tend to arb fiat values (in relatively liquid markets anyway) and most liquid markets are also traded direct for fiat (very small % trade vol happens exclusively against BTC because all the big coins trade for fiat too, and are therefore arb’d). This was my point about MAID. To look at the BTC value you would not think there were 5x the holders and interest as of 12 months ago. In fact I would claim there are. The rising fiat value of MAID creates sell pressure, what was 1.4c per coin hit 67c per coin. People cashed out and new blood bought in at much higher prices… coming in from the world fiat much more recently. I don’t think using BTC as a baseline reflects any of this, it looks stagnant as I said, but that isn’t true, a lot of MAID has changed hands at much higher prices and people have been buying their bitcoin for a lot more $ before they use them to buy MAID for (potentially) less BTC than they might have spent 12 months ago.
Anyhoo, we’re derailing off-topic here. As I say, you trade, I get it. I don’t agree with using BTC as the baseline for value or performance measurements though. Better to just include the BTC/fiat values in your data for a much clearer and less distorted picture of relative performance and relative value. Hopefully one day that will be the other way around and crypto will be more stable than fiat 
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I changed the title of this topic to give more sense of what Project Decorum is. Previously it was “Introducing ‘Project Decorum’”.
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@Seneca I appreciate your low key style and prefer it over someone who instead would talk too much, and perhaps not deliver. Thank you for keeping it so professional in this jungle.
With that said. I (and probably many more) am really looking forward to see what you have been working on. Are you able to give us any kind of update? Can we expect a first look/demo or something like that any time soon since mutable data has now been implemented?
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Dallyshalla anyone? 
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