Interplanetary currency?

#1

The problem with bitcoin and other blockchain tech is that you must share and update the blockchain. A colony on Mars would add about 30 mins to their transaction time, probably a load of other issues too having to sync across planets - may even have to fall back on the transportation of minerals to transfer value between plantes.

Could SAFE be a suitable candidate for an interplanetary crypto currency?

If there were two SAFE networks running on two planets without a communications link and running independently could I take my wallet between them and spend my SAFE coins? Would the network handle a collision of two IDs, would I randomly pick up someone elses coins?

How would you go about linking the two planets? What would you transmit between the two? Would it matter if they never connected in the past?

A way out there topic, but soon enough, someone is going to want to spend the first crypto on Mars.

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#2

WOW!!! Don’t you think you are waaaay ahead?

#3

Haha nah… there are some nice network questions above I think. Sooner or later though, we will need to use crypto across planets.

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#4

Yea sure, but lets consider the situation beforehand. You would need a pretty large group of “mars settlers” to use any kind of currency. Well that is easily 30-40 years away, dont you think? Now the current internet is not even 40 years old. Even if you consider that SAFE network would replace it (even partially) within next 5-10 years, at the pace of improvement of current technology, it is hard to imagine that SAFE network would stay for more than 40 years. Newest and more useful network would eventually come. And thus the conclusion of safecoin as well.

The question “how would we transmit safecoin withing two seperate SAFE network?” is easily a good point but interplanetary coins!! That is too much.

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#5

Why always immediately Mars?
Step by step I think: first make sure that Earth stays healthy, then to the Moon (first with robots) and only then Mars (or Venus: colonies floating in the upper-middle atmosphere). Maybe boring, but more logical to me.
But of course discussing about how to solve issues concerning ‘communicating’ between 2 seperate SAFE networks is interesting.

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#6

I think someone has a similar idea. A Dutch guy, I believe, developed Marscoin. He has the intention to deploy the network on Mars.

About collisions, I think it would be extremely unlikely. Maybe asteroid collisions XD
Two network would not link. The technology is developed on Earth. The one going to Mars will be a fork.
I cannot imagine how you would link the networks.

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#7

I’m not sure I agree. 30-40 years isn’t THAT long of a time. Besides, the point of rebuilding a global network from scratch is to fix all the problems with the old global network (the Internet) that the original architects never envisioned at the time.

Thus, it would be foolish to not try to envision future challenges like interplanetary comms when building a new design. It’s important to look ahead and design not just for the present, but for the future, to make it sustainable.

I don’t like the idea of having to build a new global networks from scratch every 40 years :stuck_out_tongue: Let’s make SAFE as sustainable and scalable as possible now. Why not? It’s still being built, it’s not too late for these considerations. And then we won’t need to waste time building a new one later.

That said, I’ve wondered about the very same questions @Zoki has. The problem I see with one SAFE network that spans the (let’s say, Solar System) is that as the maximum distance between two humans grows larger and larger, the network may get slower and slower on the average (assuming my following thinking is correct).

My thinking is that, since chunks are spread over XOR space, its statistically likely that they’ll be very geographically disbursed. If we’re only on Earth, that’s not so bad. But let’s have a thought experiment.

Suppose it’s the year 2217 (200 years from now). Humans live (and farm for SAFE) on Earth, Mars, Saturn’s moons, and Venus’ atmosphere (in kick-ass floating blimp cities).

Now, suppose you live on Mars. You upload a file to the SAFE Network. It’s split into 3 chunks. One chunk is stored on a farm on Mars, locally. But one chunk lands on a vault on Venus and the last one on Saturn.

It would take hours to retrieve those chunks and load the file back.

Sure, you might say. But, chunks are also replicated for redundancy. One copy of Chunk #2 might be on Venus. But the other copies might be stored even closer, and SAFE always fetches the fastest copy of each chunk.

True, but even still, suppose there are 30 billion vaults or more spread out across the whole solar system. Maybe all the copies of Chunk #2 are as far away as Venus or further. That could be possible. Maybe even likely.

If there are only 1 billion vaults on Mars, then there would be 29 billion vaults off-planet. How likely would any of your chunks be stored on your planet then?

I suppose it all boils down to the statistics of chunk distributions, which I can’t say I’m an expert on. But assuming a distribution model like this, then it’s logical that the greater humanity’s breadth is across the cosmos, the slower SAFE would become (again, on the average) as chunks get statistically further and further apart.

I would very much welcome counter-arguments, because this seems like a bleak picture to me! :laughing:

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#8

Correct, but how can you implement something based on some technology which is yet to invent? Lets look at the speed of improvement of communication for last 200 years. Horses/birds to radio to telephone to satellite phone, its improving dramatically. So I don’t think we would use the same technology we are using now even after 50 years.

Now the concept of SAFE network is innovative now and is very much advanced in today’s term. But I don’t think the same concept would be used in another 100 years let alone 200 years. However we can improve SAFE network as per new technologies when it gets invented to keep afloat as long as possible.

Do you think we would still use the laptops,PCs and Hard disks after another 50-100 years? Well I am not sure, we might get implants or something to connect directly. Nothing lasts forever.

Once again, you are estimating 2217 based on today’s technology. It is obvious that the communication system would improve. Clearly it would be faster. How about portals to transfer mass and energy and signals? The speed might differ too little to notice.

#9

You’d want to have multiple SAFE Networks, with the possibility to send something from one SAFE Network to another. That could also have other use cases.

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#10

The current implementation would not recognise the ID. They would be different networks.

But even if your ID could be used on the other network, then the chance that it lives on that other network is very small and thus it would be just like a new ID on that network. Remember that collision of IDs would be virtually impossible because of the number of bits. like 1 in 10^40 ( 1 in 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000) chance of getting a match.

But in any case the because the network works with data objects, the two networks are independent so my wallet address has no corresponding data object on the other network.

The best with the SAFE network is to create an exchange and have the two SAFE network using different base identifiers so that you could exchange mars_SAFEcoin for earth_SAFEcoin or the other way. The coins don’t actually leave the network, but the exchange exists on both networks and on earth the mars_SAFEcoin is just a figure that represents the amount of mars_SAFEcoin the exchange has on the mars network.

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#11

Advancements in quantum entanglment could potentially bridge planets communication systems. Bringing lag down to near zero. Data chains would do the rest. In the near term this is a no go. But in 50ish years we could get to @zoki 's vision.

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#12

I was going to mention that, but I’ve read somewhere that at this time there is no reliable data to show its any faster than speed of light.

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#13

Hmm, I’ve never seen anything like that…always read it is instantaneous regardless of separation distance, as long as they remain entangled. ‘spooky action at a distance’.

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#14

Just put David in a ship to Mars, by the time he arrives to Mars he will have had everything sorted out :smile:

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#15

You mean probably random data, that can be used to get A and B the same private key, for example.
Entangled pairs of photons are generated in 1 place and one photon of the pair is sent to A and the other to B, to be used (later) as follows:
A measures that e.g. the spin of its photon is clockwise. A can’t know before the measurement that it would be clockwise, but A does know that, after its measurement, B will measure the opposite (counter clockwise) on its photon of the entangled pair so that the sum is zero.
Also A does know for sure that the photon isn’t measured by someone else before (‘sniffing’-secure).

That is at least how I understand it. This way the scientists can also explain it in such a way that the speed of light limit isn’t breached…

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#16

Entanglement can be used to build secure network links, not to breach the speed of light.

https://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar?q=secure+network+using+entanglement&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjK2IfAgdXWAhXEExoKHePPA0QQgQMINDAA

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#17

Quantum communication is not instantaneous communication, that is thought to be physically impossible (although lots of physics is still unknown), instead it’s communication that’s physically impossible to intercept. Eventually these principles will be used to build the quantum internet. The quantum internet is at the research stage at the moment, but small quantum networks are already up and running.

The first application that has been thought of for the quantum internet is as a new way of exchanging encryption keys. People are speculating about others, like the Quantum Internet of Things with quantum sensor networks, new telescopes and distributed quantum computers.

Efficient communication between quantum computers is impossible using a classical network, you need a quantum network. Quantum computers is a bit like GPUs, they’re not good for everything, but for certain things, they’re much much faster than a CPU and enable lots of new applications. Once we get Quantum Processing Units, QPUs, in regular computers, just like most computers have GPUs now, all these QPUs could eventually be connected together on the quantum internet to form a global quantum supercomputer.

Before we get to a global distributed quantum supercomputer though, we need to figure out how to build a global distributed supercomputer, connecting millions, over even billions of potentially untrusted computers together. The SAFE Network, especially with compute capabilities coming eventually, is a step on the way.

Consensus might perhaps be done in a different and faster way on a distributed quantum computer on a quantum internet. There’s at least an article on something called Quantum Byzantine agreement on Wikipedia. I guess with quantum computers and the quantum internet, there could perhaps also be quantum cryptocurrencies. Perhaps we’ll have a quantum internet connection to Mars and entanglement could be used in some way to transfer cryptocurrency between Earth and Mars.

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#18

Immediately after that , someone created xxx.quantum